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ladylove
Fifth Love
276 Posts |
 Posted - 25/09/2005 : 23:00:44
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Unfortunately, there are so many good bands out there that never reach any success. Obviously, BL stayed with AL and his antics/insults for a reason...as has been opined in other posts...they've made more $ with AL than on their own.
LOVE is AL and JE -- and any other living members of the original group. I hope I can see them again one day. |
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Wendy from When
Third Love
79 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 00:06:59
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This is all becoming highly irrelevant. The whole concept of a backing band firing the leader is just a silly desparate piece of propanganda, complete with it's own electonic broadsheet. Could Elvis' band fire him. Could Neil Diamond's band fire him. Get real!! AL's decision to no longer tour with BL is in fact HIM firing THEM . Not the other way round. This is not going to be a popular opinion around here but there it is. I'm sure that the people who took the 50% refund and saw BL with JE enjoyed themselves immensely but i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it. There is no excusing AL's behaviour. It has at time been atrocious...BUT WHAT'S NEW??? The decision to slag AL off was an indiscreet one and one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained. Maybe they don't care but I can't see how that could be. Surely travelling the world and playing music you LOVE has got to be better than working in a record shop. Even with evil old AL.
You can not call someone a snake and insult their mother (analogy here) and suppose that because you do it in "remarkably restrained tones" (whatever that means) it's OK. Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent. The roads of history and to a lesser extent the music world are, with a few notable exceptions; MLK, MG, not paved by people who speak in "remarkably restrained tones". They are paved by, and I'm generalising here, mad eccentric geniuses with a unique POV. Does anyone hereabouts think that that applies to BL? Just asking.
BL are such a good band I really hope they can do some thing on their own that will give them a place in musical history or at least allow them to make a living outside of being "the best backup band AL ever had". It would be a shame otherwise. As for me...I'll go with the nutter every time. I don't have many records in my collection by nice guys with the "patience of saints". |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 02:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy from When
This is all becoming highly irrelevant. The whole concept of a backing band firing the leader is just a silly desparate piece of propanganda, complete with it's own electonic broadsheet. Could Elvis' band fire him. Could Neil Diamond's band fire him. Get real!! AL's decision to no longer tour with BL is in fact HIM firing THEM . Not the other way round. This is not going to be a popular opinion around here but there it is. I'm sure that the people who took the 50% refund and saw BL with JE enjoyed themselves immensely but i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it. There is no excusing AL's behaviour. It has at time been atrocious...BUT WHAT'S NEW??? The decision to slag AL off was an indiscreet one and one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained. Maybe they don't care but I can't see how that could be. Surely travelling the world and playing music you LOVE has got to be better than working in a record shop. Even with evil old AL.
You can not call someone a snake and insult their mother (analogy here) and suppose that because you do it in "remarkably restrained tones" (whatever that means) it's OK. Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent. The roads of history and to a lesser extent the music world are, with a few notable exceptions; MLK, MG, not paved by people who speak in "remarkably restrained tones". They are paved by, and I'm generalising here, mad eccentric geniuses with a unique POV. Does anyone hereabouts think that that applies to BL? Just asking.
BL are such a good band I really hope they can do some thing on their own that will give them a place in musical history or at least allow them to make a living outside of being "the best backup band AL ever had". It would be a shame otherwise. As for me...I'll go with the nutter every time. I don't have many records in my collection by nice guys with the "patience of saints".
No amount of revision can alter the fact that LOVE has always been
and always will be ARTHUR LEE; and, Arthur Lee has always been Arthur Lee.   |
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DaveyTee
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 12:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy from When
This is all becoming highly irrelevant. The whole concept of a backing band firing the leader is just a silly desparate piece of propanganda, complete with it's own electonic broadsheet. Could Elvis' band fire him. Could Neil Diamond's band fire him. Get real!! AL's decision to no longer tour with BL is in fact HIM firing THEM . Not the other way round. This is not going to be a popular opinion around here but there it is. I'm sure that the people who took the 50% refund and saw BL with JE enjoyed themselves immensely but i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it. There is no excusing AL's behaviour. It has at time been atrocious...BUT WHAT'S NEW??? The decision to slag AL off was an indiscreet one and one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained. Maybe they don't care but I can't see how that could be. Surely travelling the world and playing music you LOVE has got to be better than working in a record shop. Even with evil old AL.
You can not call someone a snake and insult their mother (analogy here) and suppose that because you do it in "remarkably restrained tones" (whatever that means) it's OK. Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent. The roads of history and to a lesser extent the music world are, with a few notable exceptions; MLK, MG, not paved by people who speak in "remarkably restrained tones". They are paved by, and I'm generalising here, mad eccentric geniuses with a unique POV. Does anyone hereabouts think that that applies to BL? Just asking.
BL are such a good band I really hope they can do some thing on their own that will give them a place in musical history or at least allow them to make a living outside of being "the best backup band AL ever had". It would be a shame otherwise. As for me...I'll go with the nutter every time. I don't have many records in my collection by nice guys with the "patience of saints".
OK Wendy, forget the rather emotive word "fire". What is clear is that BL announced that they would no longer be able to work with Arthur. In view of all the circumstances, which I do not intend to repeat yet again, that decision was understandable and amply justified.
If Arthur fired anyone, he in fact fired himself. He's not daft and he must have realised that until he is able to regain control over his particular demons his performances would continue to be erratic and increasingly embarrassing. I don't suppose that he enjoyed reading the reviews more than anyone else did. IMO, when, at the very last minute, he pulled out of the UK tour, he did so because he realised he just couldn't hack it. The band was up for it - there was nothing wrong with them and they had given Arthur no cause for dissatisfaction except for the fact, I suspect, that they had become just a wee bit too popular for Arthur's liking and were getting rather too much of the credit for the success of the resurgent Love.
I'm not sure, moreover, that MR did "slag off" Arthur unless, of course, a recital of the facts can be construed as "slagging off". Arthur let the band down big time. The fans were entitled to an explanation and Arthur clearly wasn't going to provide one. I for one am glad that MR put on record just what had happened and I think he was perfectly entitled to do so. You say "Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent". What, therefore, do you think the intent was? IMO, it was to set the record straight as to why the fans, the management, the venues, and the band had been so let down. I see no reason at all why MR should be criticised for doing that - in fact, I think he should be praised.
You also say that MR's decision to comment on Arthur's behaviour was "one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained". Have you any evidence whatever to substantiate that or is my suggestion that in fact it probably gained BL many more fans that they lost equally as valid? Similarly, have you any evidence whatever to substantiate your statement that "i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it" or, once again, would you accept that my suggestion that those who took the refund and went for a pint are now pretty upset that they missed such good performances is equally valid?
As for mad eccentric geniuses, the biggest problem with your argument is the assumption that Arthus is a genius. Certainly he once was, but I believe that he lost that genius somewhere between Forever Changes and Four Sail and has never shown any sign of regaining it since. I don't know why he lost it, though I believe that the parting of the ways between him and Bryan MacLean may have had a lot to do with it, but since then his albums have been at worst dire and at best ordinary. I think that this must be extraordinarily frustrating for him, and his constant failure to live up to expectations - his own as well as ours - may well be a substantial contributory factor to his erratic behaviour.
And finally (for now!) I'm not sure why you persist in your comparisons between Arthur Lee and BL. I don't think anyone else is doing that and if anything is highly irrelevant, that is. I in fact think that you and I are in complete agreement that both AL and BL should be looking forward, and that if BL are to progress thay can only do so on their own merits. Personally I'm not a particular fan of BL's music such as I've heard to date - it's pleasant, well crafted melodic pop but, as you say, it doesn't seem to have the essential spark to lift it above its competitors. Having said that, time is on their side, they are undoubtedly very talented musicians, and they may well make it (although probably not as "The Love Band"). The same, sadly, cannot be said of Arthur.
David. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 14:44:49
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyTee
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy from When
This is all becoming highly irrelevant. The whole concept of a backing band firing the leader is just a silly desparate piece of propanganda, complete with it's own electonic broadsheet. Could Elvis' band fire him. Could Neil Diamond's band fire him. Get real!! AL's decision to no longer tour with BL is in fact HIM firing THEM . Not the other way round. This is not going to be a popular opinion around here but there it is. I'm sure that the people who took the 50% refund and saw BL with JE enjoyed themselves immensely but i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it. There is no excusing AL's behaviour. It has at time been atrocious...BUT WHAT'S NEW??? The decision to slag AL off was an indiscreet one and one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained. Maybe they don't care but I can't see how that could be. Surely travelling the world and playing music you LOVE has got to be better than working in a record shop. Even with evil old AL.
You can not call someone a snake and insult their mother (analogy here) and suppose that because you do it in "remarkably restrained tones" (whatever that means) it's OK. Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent. The roads of history and to a lesser extent the music world are, with a few notable exceptions; MLK, MG, not paved by people who speak in "remarkably restrained tones". They are paved by, and I'm generalising here, mad eccentric geniuses with a unique POV. Does anyone hereabouts think that that applies to BL? Just asking.
BL are such a good band I really hope they can do some thing on their own that will give them a place in musical history or at least allow them to make a living outside of being "the best backup band AL ever had". It would be a shame otherwise. As for me...I'll go with the nutter every time. I don't have many records in my collection by nice guys with the "patience of saints".
OK Wendy, forget the rather emotive word "fire". What is clear is that BL announced that they would no longer be able to work with Arthur. In view of all the circumstances, which I do not intend to repeat yet again, that decision was understandable and amply justified.
If Arthur fired anyone, he in fact fired himself. He's not daft and he must have realised that until he is able to regain control over his particular demons his performances would continue to be erratic and increasingly embarrassing. I don't suppose that he enjoyed reading the reviews more than anyone else did. IMO, when, at the very last minute, he pulled out of the UK tour, he did so because he realised he just couldn't hack it. The band was up for it - there was nothing wrong with them and they had given Arthur no cause for dissatisfaction except for the fact, I suspect, that they had become just a wee bit too popular for Arthur's liking and were getting rather too much of the credit for the success of the resurgent Love.
I'm not sure, moreover, that MR did "slag off" Arthur unless, of course, a recital of the facts can be construed as "slagging off". Arthur let the band down big time. The fans were entitled to an explanation and Arthur clearly wasn't going to provide one. I for one am glad that MR put on record just what had happened and I think he was perfectly entitled to do so. You say "Cautious use of language does not veil it's intent". What, therefore, do you think the intent was? IMO, it was to set the record straight as to why the fans, the management, the venues, and the band had been so let down. I see no reason at all why MR should be criticised for doing that - in fact, I think he should be praised.
You also say that MR's decision to comment on Arthur's behaviour was "one that has probably lost BL as many fans as they gained". Have you any evidence whatever to substantiate that or is my suggestion that in fact it probably gained BL many more fans that they lost equally as valid? Similarly, have you any evidence whatever to substantiate your statement that "i am equally sure that those that took the 100% refund and went for a pint don't mind having missed it" or, once again, would you accept that my suggestion that those who took the refund and went for a pint are now pretty upset that they missed such good performances is equally valid?
As for mad eccentric geniuses, the biggest problem with your argument is the assumption that Arthus is a genius. Certainly he once was, but I believe that he lost that genius somewhere between Forever Changes and Four Sail and has never shown any sign of regaining it since. I don't know why he lost it, though I believe that the parting of the ways between him and Bryan MacLean may have had a lot to do with it, but since then his albums have been at worst dire and at best ordinary. I think that this must be extraordinarily frustrating for him, and his constant failure to live up to expectations - his own as well as ours - may well be a substantial contributory factor to his erratic behaviour.
And finally (for now!) I'm not sure why you persist in your comparisons between Arthur Lee and BL. I don't think anyone else is doing that and if anything is highly irrelevant, that is. I in fact think that you and I are in complete agreement that both AL and BL should be looking forward, and that if BL are to progress thay can only do so on their own merits. Personally I'm not a particular fan of BL's music such as I've heard to date - it's pleasant, well crafted melodic pop but, as you say, it doesn't seem to have the essential spark to lift it above its competitors. Having said that, time is on their side, they are undoubtedly very talented musicians, and they may well make it (although probably not as "The Love Band"). The same, sadly, cannot be said of Arthur.
David.
Arthur Lee released several albums after Bryan et al, left the band.
The departing members, for all their greatness and influence upon
Arthur released nothing. That is the BIG ZERO. You could say that any talent THEY had could be attributed to Arthur since
once they went on their own nothing much happened.
Arthur gets regularly accused of 'stealing songs', without proof.
Who did he 'rip off'??? What songs???? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Mr. Blues Singer
Second Love
Denmark
39 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 15:24:00
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I do not understand all this anger and sticking to ancient trains of thoughts regarding Arhtur Lee and Baby Lemonade. We have to welcome and respect the decision made and after all I think we are all eager to hear some new music. Arthur Lee has written some of the best music but his selfdestructive actions leaves every Love fan intimidated. Can anyone listen to the music without thinking about the man himself? And all the stories from burned Love musicians (check out the interview with Bryan Macleans in Psychedelic Sounds), promoters, fans and still no new music...What happened to all the new music supposedly created in jail? Letīs hear it with or without BL.
Love music was created nearly 40 years ago and more than ever we need some new Love music either from AL or BL.
Love one another
Max
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 18:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Blues Singer
I do not understand all this anger and sticking to ancient trains of thoughts regarding Arhtur Lee and Baby Lemonade. We have to welcome and respect the decision made and after all I think we are all eager to hear some new music. Arthur Lee has written some of the best music but his selfdestructive actions leaves every Love fan intimidated. Can anyone listen to the music without thinking about the man himself? And all the stories from burned Love musicians (check out the interview with Bryan Macleans in Psychedelic Sounds), promoters, fans and still no new music...What happened to all the new music supposedly created in jail? Letīs hear it with or without BL.
Love music was created nearly 40 years ago and more than ever we need some new Love music either from AL or BL.
Love one another
Max
Arthur will release his work, if and when he is ready.
Arthur has
already created some of the best music ever, and probably the
greatest album of all time, FC. If you read the comments by the participants in those particular sessions, to a man they have stated
that AL was in charge of the sessions, in a flurry of creativity, while the other members had, at one point, to be replaced by the
Wrecking Crew, falling way behind Arthur. 
I think that all these musicians who seem to now, after 40 years,
do nothing but attack and make demands of AL, should instead, show
us what they got!! Hey, I promise to buy. BL or TLB or whatever.
They put up and I'll buy.
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Cardiff Anne
First Love
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 18:39:18
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Agree with all you've noted DaveyTee, and it is my opinion that MR's comments about the situation with AL haven't lost them any fans at all-at least fans had an explanation from him as to what was happening.  |
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Wendy from When
Third Love
79 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 19:00:43
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Well David, We've both said alot. I guess the over-riding gist of your post is that another view of the events in question is equally valid. I agree. Your opinion seems to be that what has been written by MR is true while mine is that it can be at best only half the story. That is not to say it is all lies, I just don't take it as gospel as you seem to as witnessed by your reference to them as "facts". My father btold me that most "facts" are just the point where someone has gotten comfortable and stopped investigating.
As I have stated in another thread, I work in the international Music business and speak to both fans and journalists on a daily basis. The over-riding consensus is that "yes AL is still AL. No one expects him to suddenly after all these years to turn into Mother Theresa" That was a quote which I felt neatly summed up quite a few peoples feelings.Very few and i mean VERY few are interested in BL at all. That includes many that have seen the excellent shows they played with AL. I have found myself coming to their defense in urging people to at least give them a shot. Personally i found the music they played as BL (I quote myself here) "cloying and far too eager to please" for my personal taste but I do see the potential and encourage it. The vast majiority of Love fans or even people who have heard of Love/ AL have no desire to know about BL. This is worldwide not just England where BL has deservedly made a lot of fans. A bit close-minded in my view but there it is. This is old news...but you asked.
I live in London...in Islington just off Highbury Corner and I know quite a few people who declined to see BL/JE at the Academy and not one is dissapointed at having done so. It was AL they came for and "couldn't be bothered with his backing band and an old bandmate".I know people that stayed for the show and were pleasently surprised at how good it was.I don't know if thsis constitutes "evidence" to you but it certainly says more to me than the one-sided views put forth by some ardent followers of the "diaries".
As for Bl loosing/gaining fans...read some of the other threads and you will see what i am saying. No hard evidence here just the view that the above stated says it all. not much interest one way or the other.
My feeling is that the intent of the "diaries" was/is to put forth a particular POV and further ingratiate himself/themselves to the Love fanbase. Nothing wrong with a good bit of PR but let's not attach saintly premise to it. Fans have priviledges not rights when it comes to personal and business details. I feel the decision to air dirty laundry in public is almost always self-serving. I deplore it when it is about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and i deplore it when it is about AL and BL. It is interesting to me that some of the same people that claim it is a "priveledge" to know MR's business via his "diaries" claim it is their right to know and judge AL's because they are "fans".
My point about geniuses stands seperate from AL. I can't say if he is or is not one but I can say that IF he ever was one then he still is. I believe that innovation is the mark of genius. History is marked by the ever-present "self destructive genius". Without him/her we would have very little art of consequence. That is my point. It is clear that you and others do not care for AL's output after Forever Changes..OK. Some of us do. His output has been erratic but there are quite a few songs that iIlike just as much as the ones from the original band. There are always those that say " the Stones were never any good after Brian Jones left". The cult of Brian/Bryan live on thats OK as well.
There is NO comparison between AL and BL. We can agree on that totally! As for time being on BL's side. You are right in a way. However if AL never played another note of music he has already done more than I personally expect from BL based on what I've heard. So who's side is time really on???
Thanks for a well thought out post. I fully respect your views. |
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Phil Brauer
Third Love
90 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 21:01:20
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| The cult of Brian/Bryan! That is awesome, and I am a member. I think Brian Jones was the best thing the Stones ever had...and Bryan Maclean, the true genius behind Love. |
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Wendy from When
Third Love
79 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 21:11:35
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| Alls fair in LOVE and war |
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Allan
Old Love
USA
560 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 21:23:04
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Wendy
quote:
The vast majiority of Love fans or even people who have heard of Love/ AL have no desire to know about BL. This is worldwide not just England where BL has deservedly made a lot of fans.
This is entirely your opinion. Why do you try SO hard to sell your opinion? Worldwide...so you speak for everyone in the world?
You've pretty much single-handedly divided this board. Either you're a)-for AL or b)-against AL. Or you're a)-for BL or b)-against BL.
Why all the for and against?
People that agree with you-agree with you. People that don't agree with you-don't agree with you. It's really that cut and dry.
Please stop trying to sell your opinion.
Allan
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ladylove
Fifth Love
276 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 21:32:32
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I know we are all upset over the split and the delay in announcing ANY concerts for either AL or TLB.
Nobody is denying AL's talent -- whether or not he's a genius is not for me to say -- that's up to a higher power.
This whole thing is one F***ING MESS -- a fact I think we can all agree on. So, here's a question to throw out there: Would BL have made this move if JE hadn't rejoined the group?? |
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Judith
Third Love
United Kingdom
93 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 21:33:44
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| I also live in London-Islington, nowhere near Highbury Corner and I know quite a few people who did go to see Love at The Academy-as you will see by the posts around that time-superb, superb, superb! |
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Wendy from When
Third Love
79 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2005 : 22:12:43
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All reports I got from the Academy gig were also positive but from my reports it was far less than half full....a far cry from filling royal festival hall or any other venue of stature.
Alan as I very plainly stated this is not my opinion at all but the opinions of people I have spoken to. Who's opinion would you have me state... MR's or AL's or perhaps yours? Just about everything written on these boards is someone's opinion. I was answering David's post. What is in MR's "diaries" but his opinions? I respect his right to opine as he wishes just as I can read as i choose.
You are free to read and/or write as you please. I was not aware that i had such a great influence over the people here. from my view they all seem to pretty much have their own POV and are not ashamed to state it. that is the essense of dialogue. We are all big Love fans we just may not all be big BL fans. No offense meant and none taken. Perhaps some are simply happier reading about diets.
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Where is the LOVE???
