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ocfan
Fourth Love

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  06:28:17  Show Profile  Visit ocfan's Homepage  Click to see ocfan's MSN Messenger address
My My My. Where did we find Wendy???? And where is Caryne when we need her? Bravo Lizzy. Bravo Allan.
Wendy, I don't know if the real truth will ever come out but it's general knowledge that AL kind of stole the credits on several songs.
Had it not been for the current band, I can assure you his appearances would have faded off the map a long time ago. How do I know this? I have seen AL at his best and at his worst. If you pay hard earned money to see a talent perform, you expect that talent to PERFORM. When that star YOU are so enamored of, cannot speak, talk, much less sing because he can't remember the words, it's a bit disconcerting plus it tends to piss people off after they have paid that hard earned money.
I personally have seen Johnny and Rusty carry the vocals and did not realize that Rusty was actually singing instead of Arthur.
Granted when the man is "on" no one can compare. He is mesmerizing.
But, this band can outperform AL 99% of the time. I'm giving AL a 1% only because on very very rare occasions he actually shows up physically, mentally and sober enough to wow the fans.
I have seen him emotionally abuse his current band to the point had I been them I would have walked off the stage. But they have to much class to do that. They are loyal to their fans, and Arthurs fans. Cases in point Spaceland. UCLA, Coach House. And let's not forget Spain. Enough to make you cry.
Mike Randle can take you places with his guitar playing that make you feel heaven has arrived. And the rest of the band delivers as well.
Personally, they are so good, I don't care who wrote the songs. I care about hearing awesome songs performed by awesome musicians and that's what you get with the current lineup.
If you need to be a AL groupie, go for it. Maybe you'll get to see him perform sober and if you do you are in for a treat but it will be diminished by the lack of the current band.
Arthur's gone down the rabbit hole and I'm not sure he's gonna be able to come back. For your sake, I hope so. Go see him.
My loyalty belongs to the current band minus Mr. Lee. Because they are awesome talents. Because they have earned it and they deserve it.

Cheryl
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ocfan
Fourth Love

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  06:37:33  Show Profile  Visit ocfan's Homepage  Click to see ocfan's MSN Messenger address
One more thing. I would put Mike Randle right up there with Hendrix, Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Mark Knopfler, and on and on. Whether you wrote the song if you can make love to a guitar like these guys do, you've got all the star charisma you need. I don't care whether they wrote the song or not. When Mike plays like he does and takes you where he does, when he plays that guitar who gives a (fill in the blank)who wrote the song?

Cheryl
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  08:15:38  Show Profile
well dearie ...I think we can all see who the real groupie is..I'll rest that part of the conversation. As to Mike comparing with Hendrix et al...dream on. He is without doubt a fine guitarist... no doubt about that. But he would be the first to tell you not to put him in that category and he would be right. They play Love songs brilliantly but it does not I repeat does not take genius to copy what has already been done and do it as well...even better sometimes. It takes genius to come up with it in the first place!!!!! Whether AL stole this or that from this on or that one is not general knowledge.... it is rumour and ennuendo. Perhaps true...perhaps not. So many people on these boards speak as if they have the REAL STORY when all they have is what someone else wrote or MR's diaries or some some other second hand info. Innovation is the mark of genius not imitation. Please be clear on this simple point. Somewhere back on this thread someone said that AL should never have used the Love name after the original band split. I agree I don't think the band with or without JE is a very marketable commodity outside of a small group of (obviously) loyal fans. I say best of luck and mean it!!! Keep playing the songs brilliantly. the history of rock is littered with heroes who Lived fast...Died young and Stayed pretty.You know their names. AL is not one of them. he has lived a full life with all of it's ups and downs and stuck around for us to see him as he is today. He survived...mistakes and all...and has left a legacy for others to carry on. May we all be so blessed
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Allan
Old Love

USA
560 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  12:53:01  Show Profile
quote:
So many people on these boards speak as if they have the REAL STORY when all they have is what someone else wrote or MR's diaries or some some other second hand info.


Wendy...There are several people on this board that DO have first hand knowledge-not heresay or conjecture or second hand.

It is a well known fact that I am in regular e-mail communications with Michael Stuart. That doesn't necessarily make me special. Anyone can e-mail with Michael as his addy is very easy to find. We consider ourselves as 'friends', and he has shared some very interesting information with me. I don't come running here to the boards saying 'guess what I just found out', because that's not what I'm about. I just happen to have a deep fascination with LOVE, and Michael confides in me...because he trusts me. If you haven't done so yet, read Pegasus Carousel. That's Michael's book about LOVE as seen through his eyes.

I've also recently met up with another person, albeit by e-mail, that was also very close to the source back in the day. Let's just say that this person knows a different side of Arthur that we mostly read rumors about. He has absolutely nothing to gain by making up stories. This person also knows the current band and has a friendly relationship with them...nothing second hand here.

Caryne has a deep relationship with the band. She speaks with them all, including Johnny. Caryne also doesn't just say everything that she knows, because that's not what she's about also. But don't you think Johnny has confided to Caryne some very interesting information about Arthur and the band as well.

None of us can go directly to the source-Arthur Lee. He doesn't appear to have any command of Personal Computer's, nor does he appear to be interested in them. So no e-mails to Arthur.

Tina did an interview with Johnny...one on one. She appears to have a friendly relationship with him. She went right to her source

AND-Do you think Mike would say the things that he's said in his diaries if there were no truth to them. He is gigging with Johnny now, and I'm sure he would get an ear full if what he was saying were not true. In fact, being the gentleman that Mike Randle is, he's only letting on to say 10% of what he knows, keeping the other 90% inside. Why? Because he knows us, the fans, and would rather not offend us. To me, that's CLASS.

Allan


Edited by - Allan on 24/08/2005 13:03:02
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Voice of Reason
First Love

1 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  15:17:15  Show Profile
My take on recent goings on in Loveland...

Arthur is, and always has been an outsider. This has worked to his advantage, as his unique songwriting and observational abilities come from a totally different perspective from just about every other songwriter. Who else could have wrote "The Red Telephone" for example? Who else could have wrote a song like "Signed DC" when he was 18 years old?

However, being an outsider has also been an disadvantage, in terms of being able to get Love's music across. He's always had a distrust of managers & the business since the early days of Love, which have led to him trying to be take charge of his own affairs. However, being an outsider meant that he doesn't possess the neccessary business or personal skills to always do what was best for himself and the band. His definition of what's acceptable behaviour & what's right & what's wrong may be at odds with what most people think. Its a double edged sword. It has been said Arthur is/was a genius. Without going too far into that arguement, there's a high proportion of those people generally considered to be geniuses(?) who have personality problems.

The point being, Arthur's career has been littered with problems, confrontations, personality clashes etc. What's happened recently - though obviously hurtful and costly to those in and close to the band - isn't entirely suprising. What has been more suprising is the consistency high level of live performances (with a few exceptions!) that Arthur has put in since his release from prison. He's probably played more shows since 2002 than he had done throughout the 60s & 70s. On his day, no one could touch him as a front man, and as a singer. Sadly it seems that day is no more.

In spite of his behaviour, I think it must be said that just because Arthur's tried to scam Mike & Rusty over recent songwriting credits, that should detract from what he's done in the past. Arthur's last good song was written in 1992. Maybe his pride has led him down this path. The songs obviously don't come to him like they used to. That doesn't mean that would have been the case in 1966 or 67 though. Yes, there may be grey areas over songwriting credits with the first Love band (which isn't unusual in any band in any case) but I don't think you'll find anyone who would say Arthur wasn't the main creative force in that band. The other guys were a great and unique set of players, whose ability, taste, chemistry & contribution helped to make the records what they are, but Arthur was the main songwriter.

In a way Wendy from When is right to say Love without Arthur isn't Love. But the band aren't saying they're are Love. There was a sense before Arthur's no-show that the live experience was starting to stagnate & get a bit predictable, and over-reliant on the same songs time after time. It sounds like The Love Band want to move on and do something different, record some new material of their own. So give them a chance to deliver. And be thankful for the fact that we've seen so many good Love with Arthur Lee shows over the last 3 years.

One other thing, the way they've played the Love material over the last few years certainly hasn't been imitation, they've re-invented a lot of the songs, and given them a totally new level of energy so that they work better in a live environment.

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waxburn
Old Love

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  15:17:31  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy from When

well dearie ...I think we can all see who the real groupie is..I'll rest that part of the conversation. As to Mike comparing with Hendrix et al...dream on. He is without doubt a fine guitarist... no doubt about that. But he would be the first to tell you not to put him in that category and he would be right. They play Love songs brilliantly but it does not I repeat does not take genius to copy what has already been done and do it as well...even better sometimes. It takes genius to come up with it in the first place!!!!! Whether AL stole this or that from this on or that one is not general knowledge.... it is rumour and ennuendo. Perhaps true...perhaps not. So many people on these boards speak as if they have the REAL STORY when all they have is what someone else wrote or MR's diaries or some some other second hand info. Innovation is the mark of genius not imitation. Please be clear on this simple point. Somewhere back on this thread someone said that AL should never have used the Love name after the original band split. I agree I don't think the band with or without JE is a very marketable commodity outside of a small group of (obviously) loyal fans. I say best of luck and mean it!!! Keep playing the songs brilliantly. the history of rock is littered with heroes who Lived fast...Died young and Stayed pretty.You know their names. AL is not one of them. he has lived a full life with all of it's ups and downs and stuck around for us to see him as he is today. He survived...mistakes and all...and has left a legacy for others to carry on. May we all be so blessed



Wendy, the copyrights read "Arthur Lee", that is all that matters.

I am eager to check out if the GETHSEMENE (sp) album will credit Arthur for his contributions to the music, from way back.
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johnbhoy
Second Love

44 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  16:59:02  Show Profile
I'd just like to say Hail Hail to MorpethBhoy

Lisbon 1967
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  18:36:42  Show Profile
VOR is pretty clear on what I am saying. I eagerly await NEW material from both the band and AL. I have absolutely no problem with MR,JE and co. AL is not my hero,,just someone who's music and talent I admire. From my point of view too much time has gone by without any of these old band members saying or doing anything for their claims to songs, etc to have any value....my POV. All others are respected. I will try to pick up a copy of MS's book as it might prove interesting as a snapshot of a moment in time. I am simmply not as interested in the old days as some. Truthfully...all I care about is the music and I too have grown weary of hearing those same songs. But they are Love songs. Anything after 68-69 are AL songs. What are we to get now? Baby Lemonade songs in the style of 1967 Love songs? I hope not. My respect to AL for not living in the past. At Least he has tried to keep it movingfor 40 years (to the best of his abilities). 1967 is not coming back no matter how hard some may wish it. The best you will get you have already had and that was AL backed by BL on some great nights, I heard it, I loved it, I was there. I for one do not need to hear those songs 20 more time ESPECIALLY if AL is not singing them and maybe if he is.
to answer a question asked above: I do believe tha MR or anyone else would write things in their diaries (which are not diaries at all but blogs) which were false if
a) they thought what they writing was true
b) they had a precient motive
as in..does no one here see the rampant PR aspect of these diaries. Most of the conversations on these boards would not even exist without them.
Interesting , well written though they are some seem to revel in them as gospel and it is this sad rather lemming-like behaviour that lead me to title this thread GET A (LOVE) LIFE.
I know I should delete that as it was a OTT rant but then I remember that someone on this thread had the audacity to call me a groupie for no other reasonthan the fact that we disagreed How sad is that?. new songs please. Then we will know who is what and what time is LOVE.
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ocfan
Fourth Love

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  19:06:50  Show Profile  Visit ocfan's Homepage  Click to see ocfan's MSN Messenger address
Well Wendy, I must say, you sound like a very unhappy girl and frankly I think we are all a bit tired of your just pressing, pressing, home your point. You are entitled to your feelings. But that's what they are, feelings. Facts are facts and cannot be disputed. It's sure not my place to speculate on the truth but some of the truths have been out there for a long time.
I don't have a lot of time to continue to engage in these interesting comments you make but I admit you got the board roaring for a while.
Mike has in his classy way asked that we "chill". Which I will be happy to do because sometimes it's just plain impossible to get someone to see that they might be misinformed or at the least misguided.
But a couple of observations. Unfortunately for me, I have been around drug addicts and alcoholics most of my life. Therefore, it's pretty easy to spot the substance being used by an individual, by the individuals behavior. As I have always said, my hope is that Arthur gets into rehab and gets that demon off his back. The other alternative for the poor guy, is death, jail, or insanity.
Also, talents are given a lot of leeway because they need to be a little out there to draw the fans. A good song performed by a boring singer wouldn't work, now would it? So we have all watched Arthur and his behavior with a bit of (oh well, that's just Arthur) Nevertheless, he is proving to be not a nice man but that doesn't diminish his talent either. But why would I want to support a guy who is so abusive?
As far as the songwriter having to be the one singing the songs. There are many songwriters out there who never perform their own songs. The singer they chose and the musicians they choose make the song a hit, hopefully.
As I said before, I loved seeing Arthur when he was on. No one can touch him. But sadly his illness has brought him to where he is today. My hopes are that he does get better and continue to perform.
But Johnny Echols was a force of his own in the original LOVE band so that's just fine with me that he's back. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him perform and Mike and he just play off each other and it's a sight to behold.
Again, good music is good music when performed by awesome musicians.
For all you AL fans I hope you do get to see him again. I agree that he is amazing when he can keep it together.
The difference is the current band kept it together in spite of Arthurs comatose state on stage and they always keep it together.
I was saddened when they broke up but what choice did the band have? They put up with a lot of abuse over the years and it finally came to a head.
Wendy, maybe you could start your own site dedicated to original band members only. Newbies not allowed. I'm sure you'd have a great following as many people feel the way you do.
Also, it is public record that the Bryan McLean family sued Arthur and won for ( I believe) Arthur copywriting his name on some songs actually written by Bryan. Look it up. Don't take my word for it.
There are many people on this board who are friends with the current band and members of the former band. You might want to listen to what they have to say. It's sad to see you flat out insinuate that people are lying.
Hope you can put a smile on your face today. You are definately entertaining and I for one, have enjoyed reading your posts. Naive and uninformed but entertaining.
As for being a groupie? Define groupie. Out of sheer curiousity I would be interested in your definition.


Cheryl
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  20:08:34  Show Profile
Dear girl, I am far from unhappy. As for defining groupie well I'll leave that up to yopu since it was you that put the word onto the board in the first place (see your previous post). You seem to have a propensity for being judgemental. These boards are for discussions not obeisance and abject agreement!

I am not insinuating that anyone is lying. How would I know this precisely my point. How do we know? I don't really care. I just want to hear some new music. New band...old band...AL...whatever. Where is the music?

"Mike has asked in his classy way that we chill out"??? This is not MR's kingdom any more than it is AL's. These boards belong to us all and we are just discussing subjects of interest to us all. Maybe it gets a little heated but personally I respect and admire passion, just as I respect and admire the band.

So..in future please speak for yourself and leave out all the "we are all a little tired ofs". I read back on some old posts and "we all" didn't seem to get tired of a few persons, who shall go unnamed, ranting on and on and pressing their points Am I not allowed top make my point strongly because you do not agree.

Nothing comes of complacency..all true change is motivated by controversy.

I am sorry to hear that you have spent most of your life around drug addicts and alcoholics but i think it has made you a bit hardened and presumptous as regards what I am saying. New thoughts like new songs are needed around here.

I look FORWARD to hearing what the band and AL will do next.

I hope that I have not offended anyone. I have surely not meant to.
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Merlyn Merlot
Fourth Love

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  20:18:13  Show Profile  Visit Merlyn Merlot's Homepage
Perhaps if The Love Band were to call themselves "Love Abandoned"
then maybe we could all just dig the music
and not pre judge what the future may bring

Why Don't We Sing This Song Altogether?
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waxburn
Old Love

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  20:18:46  Show Profile
[quote]Originally posted by Wendy from When

Dear girl, I am far from unhappy. As for defining groupie well I'll leave that up to yopu since it was you that put the word onto the board in the first place (see your previous post). You seem to have a propensity for being judgemental. These boards are for discussions not obeisance and abject agreement!


You could say that, but you have to very alert as to who you agree with and when.
You leave the board for a couple of weeks and when you return you find yourself having to disagree with what you originally agreed with- AND,
you have to do it pronto.( or else no cd's)
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ocfan
Fourth Love

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 24/08/2005 :  21:13:37  Show Profile  Visit ocfan's Homepage  Click to see ocfan's MSN Messenger address
Great idea Merlot. And judgemental I am not. If I was I would be beating up on AL big time. Instead I only wish him sobriety.
One more point. Would Jimi still be playing foxy lady? Geeze maybe Mick better quit playing Jumping Jack Flash, Gimme Shelter and several old tunes. Seems they are no longer in fashion in some circles.
Peace

Cheryl
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 25/08/2005 :  02:02:03  Show Profile
Ask AL or Muhammad Ali. Sometimes it is best to retire gracefully. And you are right again..those songs and those artists are definitely out of fashion in some circles.

Peace and LOVE
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jazmaan
Fifth Love

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 25/08/2005 :  22:26:58  Show Profile  Visit jazmaan's Homepage
Regarding first hand knowledge - I didn't know Arthur when the original LOVE was together. When I first met Arthur his guitarist was John Sterling. This would have been around 1974 or 75. My band was opening for "Love" at a gig at Cal Arts. I recall that my guitar players were in awe of Love, but that Arthur didn't think much of us! Fast forward to 1980 when I worked briefly for a booking agency. I was assigned two rock groups as clients "Love" and "Marmalade". If you look on Torben's tourlist for that year you'll see a string of dates that I booked for Love - Hong Kong Cafe, Madame Wong's etc.

I got out of the agent game very quickly. (Not because of any difficulties with Arthur, although I certainly had a few!) Somehow I managed to remain friends with Arthur - a rare feat for anyone who's actually had to be in business with him! Arthur can be a great friend, and I have some very fond memories of those years. Sugar Ray Leonard was at his peak - I remember watching the Leonard-Hearns fight in Arthur's living room. Those were the days!

Fast forward again to early 1996 when I got an e-mail from Gene Kraut offering to fly Love to Sweden. Arthur asked me what I wanted for a booking fee and I said, "Just bring me along for the ride."
And you know the rest of the story from there.

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