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Allan
Old Love

USA
560 Posts

Posted - 18/08/2005 :  22:06:03  Show Profile
quote:
you are right to follow your heart in this. That is what I am doing. I don't mean that I don't support them. I think they do a fine job. It just ain't Love without AL.


It ALSO just ain't AL without LOVE...

W from W...You have to realize that there was something very magical about the original LOVE. Arthur may be credited with writing most of the songs, but those songs wouldn't be what they are without the band that played them. Michael Stuart told me that he wrote all the drumming for FC, that Johnny wrote his guitar licks for the songs, that Kenny wrote the bass lines, and we all know that Bryan worked hard with Arthur to get the accoustic guitar parts down (FC's songs were all accoustic based).

I think the current band is more than a cover band. They do now have Johnny-and he was an original member. And perhaps in the future, they may have Michael Stuart 'guesting' a gig or two. This current band has given 'of itself' fully to Arthur. This band idolized Arthur for what he was, and tried their best to resurrect Arthur's talent, song writing, and fame. But I guess when you have an Arthur that belittles, berates, agonizes, threatens, and just generally comes accross as "I'll do whatever I want, whenever I want" attitude, then the whole thing must come unglued.

Arthur-there's no 'I' in team

Allan
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Alexinsidcup
First Love

Australia
2 Posts

Posted - 19/08/2005 :  06:55:17  Show Profile
I've just read the news about Love sacking Arthur.

I think it's a great shame that there will be no more gigs with AL and the band together.

Fair enough if The Love Band are going to continue gigging, they're an awesome band, but it wont be the same without AL. He was the link between the songs we listened to on the old LPs and the songs we heard at the shows. The voice, the man on the stage, without that we're left with a tribute band, albeit an excellent one.

I hope AL get's well, get's himself a new band together, and get's recording again.

Alex






Alex
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Merlyn Merlot
Fourth Love

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 19/08/2005 :  07:20:57  Show Profile  Visit Merlyn Merlot's Homepage
Dosen't all of this really come down to what you're meaning of the word band is?
for me
it's not about who's wrestling for control
or who's jealous Gene Clark got the first big money
that's music business not the music

what makes Bands.. bands?
it's the sound and vision of the entire experenice
the album covers
who's producing the record?
do you dig the mono version better?
the ads in the trades
the Logo it self is one of the best in rock right?
that's what makes you want to go back to the records over and over again.
it's a band vibe.
once you start getting into who's your favorite Beatle
and who's the least fab
then it's not about the Band anymore again

for me it's ALWAYS about the music the band makes
the songs and the emotions they come with

Now
Why Don't we sing this song altogether?
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 19/08/2005 :  09:12:34  Show Profile
It seems we all agree more or less.It isn't love without AL and AL is not Love by himself.OK?
ll this business about writing Drum parts and guitar parts is trivia at best. What we are talking about here is a band that hasn't existed fro almost 40 years. Simple question... would you consider a band playing Stones songs without Mick singing them the Stones...with or without Keith? I don't think so. they might play the songs well. maybe even great but they will not be the Stones..and this band is not Love without AL maybe not even with him. I think JE is the one member that makes a difference and I am glad to see him playing with the band. But AL is the glue to Love...like JM=Doors, FM=Queen, CC=Nirvana.
AL+LoveI He is for all his faults and foibles indispensible to Authenticity
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Maria
First Love

3 Posts

Posted - 19/08/2005 :  09:17:02  Show Profile
Would clubs have been booking the band called Love the past few years without Arthur? No. Thanks to Arthur, and granted it had as much to do with novelty of seeing him out of jail as it did his diminished vocal capability, the band managed to get booked and get a following.

Arthur has/had presence and charisma. He may be an unbelievable world-class jerk, but give him that much. He's the reason I went to see Love. He also has history behind him. I'm not sure I'd see him again if he continues to have problems (which no doubt he will -- I suspect both substance abuse and major mental health issues ala Roky Erikson and Brian Wilson). But I don't think I'll bother with the Love cover band.
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MHM
Third Love

United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - 19/08/2005 :  16:51:03  Show Profile  Visit MHM's Homepage
Wendy. Art copied one hell of a lot from Bryan. Look at the difference between FC and the albums that followed it. Where did his muse go me wonders. And from all that's been said, yes, as kids they were all very intimidated by Art in a physical sense. He was more than happy to show them who the leader was and as they were playing in a popular local band, each of them wanted to stay onboard. This did mean Bryan not getting the amount of songs on the albums that he should have. Not that I'm saying I'd change the 1st 3 albums mind you. But if they'd stayed together, they would/could've developed even more from Forever Changes. Relevance you ask. Well Johnny has said that he is working on finishing Gethsemene with Baby Lemonade and they have also written songs together, so new material on the way - finally. Development. He also sang live back in the 60s on lead vocals on a number of the tunes and very definitely contributed to the songs and musical arrangements on the first 3 albums, but as was the way with Arthur, if you didn't contribute the words then you didn't get a credit. The way he apparantly saw it, was that just helping put the music together wasn't enough to warrant 'writing the song'. So again, Johnny deserves a break. Art made alot of money over the years touring under the Love banner - because that's what promoters wanted, not just Arthur Lee - when the Love name should've been put to rest in 1968. Johnny did help write and compose songs, did sing lead with the original band and IS writing a new album now, which thankfully will include some of the legendary Gethsemene songs, a project that was Johnny's idea in the 1st place, hence the confusion all these years.
So to round off. Love wasn't Love even with Arthur Lee. It hasn't been Love since 1968. It has been a slogan to get gigs. Baby Lemonade are no more a cover band with or without Arthur. Arthur hadn't added ANY new songs and was happy to play the same set without extending himself for 30 years. Johnny appears and straight away there's talk of new material.

As a subnote, am I the only person that was disappointed with the DVD of the festival hall?
It's great that people can get a 'Love' DVD but watching Arthur reading the words for songs he should know by heart was a bit of a let down.

cheers Chris

www.BryanMacLean.com www.ZENuk.com www.MileHighMusic.co.uk
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  02:24:29  Show Profile
Well ....sounds like more chitty chatty gossipy rock lore to me. Who say who wrote what!! and 40 years after the fact Do I really cars. NO! AL has written plenty of songs over the years and put out many records. What are you talking about? . You may not like them but to deny that they exists is silly. Neither you nor I or anyone else will probably know the whole truth....ever. So everyone just keep on living your own private Love myth. everyone believes what they need to believe. If it suits your purpose to say that AL copied BM then go right ahead.It does not change the simple fact that AL is/was the voice of Love. No one sings the same after 40 years. That's why you have the records!!! So if you want the same ...you have the same. Bless JE and the band for trudging on, but without new songs and AL to sing them it will never be LOVE...... ever! You are half right. Baby Lemonade are not a cover band with AL...they are a backing band. Baby Lemonade without AL is definitely a cover band as they were when they first were heard by AL (hope I got that right). They are Baby Lemonade NOT Love. Isn';t that clear?
So many people on these boards seem to be living in some strange time warp where the past gets mixed up with the present.
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jimmyboy
Fourth Love

USA
234 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  08:37:21  Show Profile
I keep hearing people mention that Arthur's voice had "diminished" since he went to prison.I've seen about 10 showa since he returned. About four of those were lousy (due to AL being in his ugly mode) but the rest of them,when he was "on" were terrific vocal performances that were nearly opera-like in quality! Especially House of Blues Hollywood,Henery Fonda Theater and the Love/Zombies show at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco.
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  10:59:27  Show Profile
I agree. I have seen about 5 shows and luckily missed all of the bad ones. the shows I heard he sounded great. tone pitch and feeling were all at top form. I guess he decides when it's going to be good by his actions. That's show biz folks. Everyone likes to watch the man on the tightrope wonderin if/when he will fall.
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MorpethBhoy
First Love

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  11:06:45  Show Profile
Excellent post, MHM.
Wendy, I think that some of your posts seem to be done just to be anatagonistic, "this is all chitty chatty gossipy rock lore to me" etc. It's not if, as in this scenario, it's happening again to Baby Lemonade; it's vindication that it's not the first time that Arthur Lee has or tried to take all the credit for writing Love songs. And if he didn't solely write all the old songs that he claimed to in the past, then his current claim to importance as being the core, the seed of Love is diminished.

Wendy what will you do if Milli Vanilli reform?

I support Celtic Football Club, I don't support Lubo Moravcik, Henrik Larrson, Martin O'Neill or Wullie Maley, who helped found the club; I support the team in all it's incarnations. If Paolo DiCanio, Jorge Cadete and Pierre Van Hooidonk, who were all magical players (DiCanio and Cadete especially) all fall out with Celtic and behave like petulant spoiled brats then I supported Celtic, even though DiCanio was a one man team and Celtic were much lessened by his absence. It's not a perfect analogy I know but I hope I'm getting my point a across. And apologies to all non-football lovers for bringing football into this.
We've all had a chance to see Love with Arthur Lee (note the order) over the past few years and make up our minds as to how good Arthur and the rest of the band are. None of us are watching the Love that made those records in the 60s; we were probably watching the best we could get. Would you get more entertainment from watching Arthur Lee with some pickup band a la Chuck Berry?

I think that just because the guy who sings the songs originally is in the band or not isn't the sole reason for going to see the band.

Here endeth the sermon.

Iain
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MorpethBhoy
First Love

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  11:07:50  Show Profile
AAAGGGHHH! Sacrilege! I meant Larsson.
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Tina
Old Love

United Kingdom
678 Posts

Posted - 20/08/2005 :  14:51:32  Show Profile  Visit Tina's Homepage  Click to see Tina's MSN Messenger address
Well said MorpethBhoy - from (erstwhile) BedlingtonGurl
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Wendy from When
Third Love

79 Posts

Posted - 22/08/2005 :  07:23:03  Show Profile
Well all this football talk is martian to me. I for one honestly do not know (for a fact) who wrote what songs but i do know that the history of popular music is strewn with former band members coming out of the woodwork making creative claims years after the fact. happens all the time. I do know who sung them and i know that it was the voice and the songs that kept my attention over the years. Now if someone has a claim on those songs let him stake that claim otherwise (and this is what I mean by chitty chatty gossipy rock lore) it is all hearsay...after-the-fact and I'm sure not without it's own agenda. Love is not a football club. 1966 was the year England won the World Cup...do you want to see that game replyed bydifferent players? What kind of allegory are you making really? I don't think I have said a single word of disrespect to the band who I believe play Love songs as well as we will ever hear them. To repeat one last time...without AL singing them, they might as well bill themselves a Baby Lemonade because they are not and can not ever be Love. Like it or not it is AL that has kept that name alive for 40 years and as such he is the one that has earned the right (if anyone) to use it. It has not all been rosy but at least it did not die. Where were all of the original members, you know...the ones claiming rto have written the songs, drums parts or whatever. I say let the band play on.....it just ain't Love.
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boombox
Old Love

United Kingdom
532 Posts

Posted - 22/08/2005 :  08:45:48  Show Profile
WFW, you seem to have missed the point. Johnny, Rusty, Mike and Co have never claimed to be carrying on as "Love". That is what the "Love Band" name is all about.

I agree with both MHM and especially with Morpethboy in his football allegory (Yes, and I prefer Celtic to 'Gers - always have, even when Celtic weren't doing so well ). I have always loved the band known as Love, ever since I first heard Da Capo over 20 years ago, swiftly followed by Real Live. The membership may have changed, but it is still Love. When I was a child in the 70s, did I switch allegiance from Leeds United when they sold all their best players? Of course not.

Canned Heat still tour as Canned Heat, though there is only Fito left; Jefferson Starship only have PK left now as a permanent fixture, due to Marty's problems in his personal life; Lemmy is the only original member of Motorhead and Man have more "real" members in Deke Leonard's new band, Iceberg, than in Man itself. Does this mean I will enjoy the music any less and stop supporting their concerts? What do you think?

What is certain is that, to cite two examples of bands I have seen a fair bit this year (ie both three times each) both the Love Band and JS now comprise memberships which, one, far outstrip their original counterparts in terms of tenure and two, who are creating some of the finest music in each of their relevant histories. Diana and David are not replacements for Grace and Marty, just, as one person has put it on the js board, if each member of the band were an ice-cream, they are different flavours. Rusty may not be Arthur, but at least he remembers the words and stays in tune and Johnny is going from strength to strength with both his lead work and lead vocals. And at least it looks like Johnny may now get to finish Gethsemane.

I do hope Arthur will sort out his problems - it is a shame to see one of one's heroes disappear so far up his own a*** that he needs a map to get out. Let him get a band together and try to prove to us all he has changed. However, I think the band have learned their lesson - let him bully some other unsuspecting guys instead.
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Judith
Third Love

United Kingdom
93 Posts

Posted - 22/08/2005 :  11:50:46  Show Profile
Well put boombox! I also wonder where AL would have been in latter years if it hadn't been for Mike, Rusty etc, who, together with AL, kept Love alive. As you say, they are not now claiming to be Love, and they haven't been Baby Lemonade for many years now-so bring on The Love Band, and good luck to AL too.
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