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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 26/11/2010 : 22:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by LeeRob
I've just taken the time to read this entire thread, there is some great insight and authority posted in your words; because everyone is anonymous it is difficult for me to tell opinion from direct or second-hand knowledge. Either way, it is a very passionate and somewhat well rounded discussion - about a book; Michael's book. I enjoy the rap, you are interesting people. Joe is so dry, ha; waxburn so arrogantly passionate (of course wb will disagree); I guess the same could be said for gatemouth shows the same traits as wb. I use all of these adjectives with the utmost love and affection. "lemonade kid," full of kindness and fairness gets a little ripped in defense of Michael Ware (remember when he was just Michael Ware?); a good rock solid base comes forth from lk to keep this post alive. But, I'm saying all of this (I can't wait to be ignored :) ) because I wonder if you have passed notice on the fact that another LOVE book is being written in your posts. And I wonder how you would edit it; I guess you would have to go to the source; the remaining members of the band to get some stories straight. I like YOUR book.
It's all the same day.
i dont know about arrogance. if anyone is arrogant its the sources ive been basing my posts on. PC, Holzman etc etc, and common sense. but hey if im the arrogant one, and a book is written up
from this i hope i get a share of the royalties.
Also, i believe AL should also have some PR.
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 26/11/2010 : 22:32:10
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[quote]Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Jac Holtzman is on record saying a lot of things, mostly hyperbole, or just plain made up, self serving nonsense. Both Arthur and Johnny have stated to many people including myself, that most of Jac's assertions are pure bull****. A Quote from Johnny Echols.... "Jac Holtzman is one of the most duplcitous, dishonest, and manipulative individuals, I have ever had the misfortune, to deal with, If the man said water was wet, I'd want a second opinion."
Jac Holtzman was in the studio for most of the first album, plus Seven and Seven is.... Period. He never was in the studio with Love again.
Bruce Botnick engineered the first Album, and the backing tracks on Forever Changes.
John Haney at Western, did the strings, and the horns, and much of the vocal, and lead guitar over-dubs. Besides having an eight track recorder, which Sunset Sound did not have, Western was large enough for the mini orchestra, again Sunset Sound was not.
Both Jac and Bruce speak about Dacapo, as though they knew what they was talking about, though neither of them were there for any cuts. It was recorded with Dave Hassinger at RCA. Revelation was the exception, which Bruce and Mark A. mostly screwed up, at Sunset Sound. Leaving Paul Rothschild, to finish the hatchet job in New York.
By the way.... Bryan's "hissy-fit" and attempted sabotage, is what caused the wrecking crew to be used in the first place. You will find that mentioned in John's book.
Well, wonder of wonders, its Bryan to blame. I recall reading in PC,that MR MSW himself said that all members had trouble with getting in tune,everything was outta whack.
In Buffalos book, pardon my arrogance , JE stated that Gethsemane was a title he came up for 4-5 songs he was going to do on Forever Changes, etc, jazzy songs that werent recorded..... and so on. with all due respect to JE its a hard to follow what Gethsemane was. the orginal 'double album' or a 4 trach mini album.
Jac Holzman signed the checks, and LOVE (my fav group) were no Beatles(dont like the Beatles frankly too many silly songs ), and no record label is gonna sanction a double album from a group whose previous releases peaked at 54 and 80. Its commercial suicide.
you cant fit a square peg into a round hole. |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 26/11/2010 : 23:03:39
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certainly this thread would be better than the book on Forever Changes published by 33 1/3!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG3Qc3ZUhBo
last time I was in a shop it was marked under 'kindling' ! |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 00:03:02
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There were problems getting in tune, because they knew there would be violins, cello's and horns, ie a small orchestra, added after the fact. So they had to not only be in tune with themselves, they had to be extra vigilant to always be at concert pitch. This required getting used to a strobe tuner, and using A-442 rather than the normal A-440. If they were even slightly off, then all of the tracks would have been out of tune with the orchestra, making them useless.
This meant keeping several twelve string guitars, several six string acoustic guitars, and two nylon stringed spanish guitars, plus the electric guitars in "perfect" tune. they had to check with the strobe, after each song. This would not have been easy under the best of circumstances. All of the drama Bryan was causing, made it an even more difficult undertaking.
I'm Sorry, but I've never read Michael's book, nor am I relying on any book! I'm relating what I [know] from eyes-on, first hand Knowledge. And from speaking with those directly involved at the time. I'm not fond of tilting at windmills, nor do I have an axe to grind. My friend warned me not to jump into the fray, he said "when it comes to the group Love, some folks beliefs are etched in stone, and that's just the way it is, truth be dammed." I've seen how much grief, misinformation has caused life-long friends. and have attempted to allow a bit of light into the room.... but "Hey" I gave it my best shot......Carry on!!! |
Edited by - gatemouthmoore on 27/11/2010 02:06:51 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 00:08:56
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| Their first album, Please Rut Me, was made in twenty minutes. Their second took even longer. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 01:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
I'm Sorry, but I've never read Michael's book, nor am I relying on any book! I'm relating what I [know] from eyes-on, first hand Knowledge. I have no horse in this race, nor do I have an axe to grind. My friend warned me not to jump into the fray, he said "when it comes to the group Love, some folks beliefs are etched in stone, and that's just the way it is." I've seen how much grief, misinformation has caused life-long friends. and have attempted to allow a bit of light into the room.... but "Hey" I gave it my best shot......Carry on!!!
You havent read the book!! Thats odd! I dont think hes the greatest drummer in the world, but have the book and am looking forward to the re issue.
Maybe folks beliefs are etched in stone, it also could be that some folks been around a bit, and know when they are being sold a bill of goods. |
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Buffalo
Fourth Love
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 03:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
would Snoopy not be on the contract with Elektra? he was in the original group and not Conka
Don Conka's name was on the original contract, not Snoppy's, but Don never signed it. Snoopy was not included in any of the contract addendums either. |
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Buffalo
Fourth Love
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 03:12:07
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I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed Michael's book and told him so when we spent a morning together. It's his own personal recollections of a period in time full of colourful anecdotes and insights. He calls 'em like he saw 'em.
FYI, no one does these kinds of book, mine included, expecting any royalties. That's not what motivated Michael, nor me. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 04:08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
There were problems getting in tune, because they knew there would be violins, cello's and horns, ie a small orchestra, added after the fact. So they had to not only be in tune with themselves, they had to be extra vigilant to always be at concert pitch. This required getting used to a strobe tuner, and using A-442 rather than the normal A-440. If they were even slightly off, then all of the tracks would have been out of tune with the orchestra, making them useless.
This meant keeping several twelve string guitars, several six string acoustic guitars, and two nylon stringed spanish guitars, plus the electric guitars in "perfect" tune. they had to check with the strobe, after each song. This would not have been easy under the best of circumstances. All of the drama Bryan was causing, made it an even more difficult undertaking.
I'm Sorry, but I've never read Michael's book, nor am I relying on any book! I'm relating what I [know] from eyes-on, first hand Knowledge. And from speaking with those directly involved at the time. I'm not fond of tilting at windmills, nor do I have an axe to grind. My friend warned me not to jump into the fray, he said "when it comes to the group Love, some folks beliefs are etched in stone, and that's just the way it is, truth be dammed." I've seen how much grief, misinformation has caused life-long friends. and have attempted to allow a bit of light into the room.... but "Hey" I gave it my best shot......Carry on!!!
Dont know what to say. About the tuning that is.
Is it possible that the whole Wrecking Crew episode could have been avoided if they had hired someone to tune the guitars instead?
Maybe you should read PC by MSW. He goes into the way that the whole thing was off, no tuning gizmo would have salvaged the situation. They didnt rehearse enough, and were a bit down and out. Its in that book and also in Buffalos book. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 04:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Buffalo
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed Michael's book and told him so when we spent a morning together. It's his own personal recollections of a period in time full of colourful anecdotes and insights. He calls 'em like he saw 'em.
FYI, no one does these kinds of book, mine included, expecting any royalties. That's not what motivated Michael, nor me.
True and i dont think money motivates anyone posting here either.
But just in case someone makes a book out of this i want to protect my interests, as i did write my posts( aka parts).
As for the book i find it a unsettling read. Doesnt recall that he sued Arthur Lee but remembers mundane details like buying Arthur a carton of OJ. Its still entertaining overall. |
Edited by - waxburn on 27/11/2010 04:20:18 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 04:13:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Buffalo
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
would Snoopy not be on the contract with Elektra? he was in the original group and not Conka
Don Conka's name was on the original contract, not Snoppy's, but Don never signed it. Snoopy was not included in any of the contract addendums either.
What happened to Conkas 1%? It wasnt paid to Snoop. |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 05:24:27
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Suppose you were to walk into a room, and see a bright red sign, and recognize it as a bright red sign. Over the years you thought about that sign, even made mention of it in your personal journal, and spoke to others who were there, and had seen the same red sign. Fast forward a few years, someone reads a book about the room, but says you can't pull the wool over my eyes, I'm convinced the sign was green.
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 05:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Suppose you were to walk into a room, and see a bright red sign, and recognize it as a bright red sign. Over the years you thought about that sign, even made mention of it in your personal journal, and spoke to others who were there, and had seen the same red sign. Fast forward a few years, someone reads a book about the room, but says you can't pull the wool over my eyes, I'm convinced the sign was green.
Suppose i walk into a room a see a bright red sign and feel the need to write in a journal and talk to others about it? Is that the question? How many red sign entries in the journal? |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 08:05:02
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| UNCLE! |
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2010 : 11:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Suppose you were to walk into a room, and see a bright red sign, and recognize it as a bright red sign. Over the years you thought about that sign, even made mention of it in your personal journal, and spoke to others who were there, and had seen the same red sign. Fast forward a few years, someone reads a book about the room, but says you can't pull the wool over my eyes, I'm convinced the sign was green.
Which brings us back to the recently discussed mythology surrounding the rumoured unreleased track from the debut album ...Red Light, Green Light.
Seriously though, a friend of this site has made available to me a copy of Pegasus Carousel...and so I am about to start on it. As a historian, I really do relish the prospect of reading a first hand account of what happened back then. |
Edited by - John9 on 27/11/2010 11:55:56 |
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Pegasus Carousel preorder
