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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 25/11/2010 : 04:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Michael just wanted to stick it to Arthur for screwing him around
I mean, clearly the album paid itself off, it only cost a few thousand to record it, didn't it?
And Arthur saying that they still owed money for it .. yeah right!
Looking forward to the Randle book whenever its published of course. The new book by Keith Richards (Life) is worth reading in the meantime. Uproarious stuff, with the audio book read by Keith and Johnny Depp 
Happy Thanksgiving to all - gobble gobble JLO!
The album did not pay itself off. Certainly not by the time the legal proceedings were brough by MSW. FC, was 154 on the charts. it was a bomb, nobody bought it. they had to pay an arranger and orchestra in addition to studio costs and advances to the artists(the weekly allowances and rent payments that MSW mentions in the book, that was not free money, that was subject to being recouped). It did not cost a couple of grand to make, and Jac Holzman irregardless of his intentions was out to make money, he was not a mark.
in 1971 10,000 dollars was more than a generous sum for an album that tanked and could not be foreseen at the time to even recoup its costs.
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 05:49:30
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| The album was recorded in 1967, for 2800 dollars. Elektra did not pay their rents or give them an allowance. Contrary to popular misinformation the group played regularly on the west coast, and were able to support themselves quite well. They could earn more by remaining on the west coast, where they could drive to the gigs, and return home to their own houses. Touring with all of the expenses that were entailed, planes and hotels etc. earned them far less money. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 06:00:05
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
The album was recorded in 1967, for 2800 dollars. Elektra did not pay their rents or give them an allowance. Contrary to popular misinformation the group played regularly on the west coast, and were able to support themselves quite well. They could earn more by remaining on the west coast, where they could drive to the gigs, and return home to their own houses. Touring with all of the expenses that were entailed, planes and hotels etc. earned them far less money.
2800 with or without the billboard on Sunset Boulevard? Please. Tell Holzman to send me the paperwork and ill beleive. A couple of hours of the Wrecking Crew would be more than 2800. I think the figure ive heard , 20,000 is more accurate.
I would like to refer you the PC itself where MSW states that they
got paid for live performances after each show. Therefore, the allowances received from management were not based on performance revenue. I would like to also refer you to PC itself where he states that Mgmt paid them rent and living allowances, which if they did not include performance fees, which they received after each show, must have come from monies advanced by Electra.
All this is irrelevant, since he had a legal victory over AL in court.
he 'won'. but hes still whining. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 07:10:40
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Somebody is whining here and it ain't Michael......there is some kind of whiney resentment that is not warranted going on here by "some" members...so there is really no sense in debating this forever.....debate is over on this post. If you are not a Love fan, what are you doing here....healthy debate is one thing but really....what is going on here?
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We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 07:32:27
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The wrecking crew were there for one three hour session, and one half session. [A] scale in the sixties was one hundred ten dollars per session, which was paid to the leader Don Randi. The three other musicians including Hal Blaine would have been paid [B] scale, ninety dollars per three hour session. The four of them would have earned less than Six hundred dollars total, for the sessions. ie the whole album, they only played one full song, and parts of one other.
You need to put the money in the perspective of the times. In 1967 a Porche 911 sold for six thousand dollars new. A Chevy Impala was less than three thousand, and you could rent a really nice three bedroom house in the Canyon for under two hundred dollars per month. Most were under one hundred and fifty dollars. I lived at the Sunset Towers West for one hundred and fifty dollars per month. The same room would be over three thousand dollars today. Gas was around thirty cents per gallon. The average salary would have been around five thousand per year. Everything is relative! |
Edited by - gatemouthmoore on 25/11/2010 08:06:51 |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 07:43:09
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Michael Stuart-Ware, was and is, one of the finest, most inventive drummers that ever sat behind a drum kit. Without [Him,] Johnny Bryan and Kenny, Forever Changes would have been a very different record, and we wouldn't be having this debate.... [PERIOD!]
More than enough said on this topic!  |
Edited by - gatemouthmoore on 25/11/2010 07:50:33 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 14:28:54
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Michael Stuart-Ware, was and is, one of the finest, most inventive drummers that ever sat behind a drum kit. Without [Him,] Johnny Bryan and Kenny, Forever Changes would have been a very different record, and we wouldn't be having this debate.... [PERIOD!]
More than enough said on this topic!
Arthur Lee felt the same way. I would beg to differ, as there hardly is any difference between the LOVE tracks and the Wrecking Crew tracks on FC. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 14:31:49
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Somebody is whining here and it ain't Michael......there is some kind of whiney resentment that is not warranted going on here by "some" members...so there is really no sense in debating this forever.....debate is over on this post. If you are not a Love fan, what are you doing here....healthy debate is one thing but really....what is going on here?
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK
Yes, I know, if you dont like LOVE...wait.... who likes LOVE?
All these whiny guys with their whiny books, the love dishing it out but dont like it coming their way. Like, hey dude, how long were you in LOVE anyways? a year? |
Edited by - waxburn on 25/11/2010 14:39:41 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 14:35:49
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
The wrecking crew were there for one three hour session, and one half session. [A] scale in the sixties was one hundred ten dollars per session, which was paid to the leader Don Randi. The three other musicians including Hal Blaine would have been paid [B] scale, ninety dollars per three hour session. The four of them would have earned less than Six hundred dollars total, for the sessions. ie the whole album, they only played one full song, and parts of one other.
You need to put the money in the perspective of the times. In 1967 a Porche 911 sold for six thousand dollars new. A Chevy Impala was less than three thousand, and you could rent a really nice three bedroom house in the Canyon for under two hundred dollars per month. Most were under one hundred and fifty dollars. I lived at the Sunset Towers West for one hundred and fifty dollars per month. The same room would be over three thousand dollars today. Gas was around thirty cents per gallon. The average salary would have been around five thousand per year. Everything is relative!
Everything IS relative. Ten grand of AL money going to MSW in 1971 was quite a sum.
When i see the paperwork on FC ill beleive that it cost 2800. In the meantime, ill go with the figure that i think Jac Holzman has mentione, 20,000.
Bleeker and McDougal cost 3 grand to make and still hadnt recouped as of the mid 90s. And that was a couple of days with a couple of acoustic guitars. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 16:10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by kdion11
quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
He wasnt happy and he sued and got his money. Now he goes out and makes more money writing a book on Arthur. Dont know he could publish a book about life withe the SOA.
KD: Of course - anyone can write a book about ANYONE or ANYTHING,
without the subject's permission. If you lie or slander you can
be dragged into court to account for yourself.
Free the books !
[/quote]
Exactly my point.
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 16:57:11
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Here's to being thankful for everything LOVE...I'm pretty mellow today.....so fire away.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 17:47:52
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Here's to being thankful for everything LOVE...I'm pretty mellow today.....so fire away.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK
Just calls em as i sees em. |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 19:01:20
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[/quote]
Arthur Lee felt the same way. I would beg to differ, as there hardly is any difference between the LOVE tracks and the Wrecking Crew tracks on FC.
[/quote]
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Johnny and Kenny played on all of the tracks, including the one and a half songs the Wrecking crew were on. Since Mr. Echols played on all of the acoustic backing tracks, plus all of the lead guitar work, and flourishes.... It's only natural, that they would sound like Love.
Dude you've lost your way, open your ears as well as your mind. You're doing exactly what you fault Michael for.... giving your opinion. The only caveat is [He] was actually there. Who's to say.... in a parallel Universe, your interpretation may be valid. In this one you are out voted by the facts.
GMM
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 20:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Arthur Lee felt the same way. I would beg to differ, as there hardly is any difference between the LOVE tracks and the Wrecking Crew tracks on FC.
[/quote]
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Johnny and Kenny played on all of the tracks, including the one and a half songs the Wrecking crew were on. Since Mr. Echols played on all of the acoustic backing tracks, plus all of the lead guitar work, and flourishes.... It's only natural, that they would sound like Love.
Dude you've lost your way, open your ears as well as your mind. You're doing exactly what you fault Michael for.... giving your opinion. The only caveat is [He] was actually there. Who's to say.... in a parallel Universe, your interpretation may be valid. In this one you are out voted by the facts.
GMM
[/quote]
You can hardly even hear the drums on the mix, frankly.
Snoopy,Conka, Arthur all played the drums, probably others.
the facts out vote me in what regard? in that MSW is the greatest drummer
of all time?
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Edited by - waxburn on 25/11/2010 20:27:49 |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2010 : 21:17:36
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Again may I correct you, neither Arthur or Conka played drums on any of the "released" LOVE records!
That is "Snoopy" playing drums on the first album.... on every track. Also on Seven and Seven is. This is posted with the understanding that I DO NOT THINK MUCH OF SNOOPY, as a drummer, or a person....!!!!
Don Conka was in C.R.C. when Love signed with Elektra, and he remained there through [all] of the first three albums, thus he never played on any "released" record. If you find a Love track from the sixties, with Conka playing drums, you can make yourself some serious cash.
When they hired Michael, Love had their pick of the best drummers in the business.
They chose Mike.... Arthur, Johnny, Kenny, and Bryan, all felt that he was the best by a very wide margin. Listen to a House is not a Motel, and hear the genius that is Michael Stuart-Ware.
By the way, if you can't hear those magnificent drums, [that] may be where the problem lies.....You need a better sound system!
The more misinformation I read, the more I'm convinced that some of us are posting with tongue planted firmly in cheek! |
Edited by - gatemouthmoore on 25/11/2010 21:25:25 |
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