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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2010 : 16:26:06
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I looked up documented quotes by Arthur and this was there.....how reliable I don't know, but I have heard it before..and even Johnny refers to hearing Janis' voice ("howling" or "screeching" was it?) in the background at the show where they talked to that vet....in the Love Story doc.
I COULDN'T STAND JANIS JOPLIN'S VOICE.....SHE WAS JUST A SCREAMING LOUDMOUTHED LITTLE CHICK.
-Arthur Lee
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/arthur_lee/
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We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2010 : 21:09:14
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So I have just heard from Michael. Pegasus is not yet printed, final additions and photos are being decided upon.
There are only minor text revisions to the main, and a new Epilogue. What that contains Michael is not saying but it doesn't seem to be that it will contain any new revelations.
Either way, I think it will be a welcome addition to our LoVE library and I am going to get it, even though I have a personally signed (by Michael) first edition.
So this is the last word on it.
Right!
.... like there will ever be a last word on the always fascinating subject of LoVE!!
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We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 03:24:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Wow. he must've been really bitter if he didn't touch on Arthurs death. He even mentioned Bryan's death, although he does not seem particularly close to Bryan
As he was to Kenny, for example, or Snoopy, both of whom he lived with
I recently read that book by the drummer from the Captain Beeheart band, the Magic Band. Similar in tone to this one,only about 1000 pages of whining.
Capt Beefheart was so very mean to him, it took for him to find Jesus
to leave the house. First thing Jesus tells him once he gets out is to go back to Capt Beefhearts band, and so it goes on for page after page. Id be embarrased to write such a book, but then again im not that spiritual. Needless to say his only claim to fame post
CB was reviving the Magic Band.
MSW received a 10,000 dollar settlement from AL in 1971, thats about
100,000 in today money. AL also took notice of him and put him in the band and was able for the first and last time to make onto vinyl.
With all the above, i would expect that any new material in the new updated PC would include a tribute to AL.
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Edited by - waxburn on 11/11/2010 03:25:41 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 04:11:23
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Captain Beefheart was interested in mind control and was determined to control that band!
I like Trout Mask but it probably would've been better as a single lp! |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 04:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Captain Beefheart was interested in mind control and was determined to control that band!
I like Trout Mask but it probably would've been better as a single lp!
if you go by the book by the drummer, he received some help from above when it came to his evil plan. To control the hapless musicians who could have otherwise been playing bongos for Stavinsky.
Yes yes and no drugs were involved(maybe a little pot) during the opening sessions of FC. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 16:58:35
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AM I the only one who finds Pegasus Carousel to be a very good read and a fine bit of
Love history. I don't see PC being anymore "mean" than any other honest bio of
Arthur and LoVE. Arthur is always put in a "bad light" throughout his life, if that
bit of history is honest. But Arthur was at the same time, a loving and giving man....
the nature of the beast.
Michael was in a top band for the day, and was wooed away by a band (LOVE) that
seemed to appeal more to Michael's creative spirit...to rise to even greater levels of creativity.
His bad experiences with drugs were never blamed on Arthur but rather, on the
times and the easy access to drugs that was afforded every popular band of the day.
Just look at the losses in the rock industry due to drug overuse. Michael is not
whining...he is telling it like it is. What I get is the same thing I get from almost
every one to ever play with Arthur.....what an honor to have had the chance to
play Arthur's music, but what an equally wonderful and frustrating time they had.
In many cases, as shown by Michael in PC, the bandmates were the screw-ups more often than Arthur.
Arthur was a sweet. paranoid genius. He promised much $ to his bandmates
and would rarely follow through....that was Arthur. His fear of being ripped off
by....well just about everyone, caused him to do the same to friends and foes
alike. But it is part of all that made Arthur a genius. So many of our 60's artists
are now thought to have been bi-polar or to have some such illness....and a very
few led to tragedy--but if Arthur Lee or Gene Clark or Phil Ochs had been
medicated (tho the meds of today were not even available then), would they have
been medicated down to a manageable but uncreative state?
That debate can go on forever.....but I cherish any and all personal accounts of
any surviving LoVE band member and am still waiting for Johnny's, or Snooop's...
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 11/11/2010 17:00:52 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 01:00:42
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| Michaels book is fine, though he wasn't really close to the creative heart of the band (Bryan/Arthur) so he didn't really write too much about the music, or what the songs meant. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 01:25:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Michaels book is fine, though he wasn't really close to the creative heart of the band (Bryan/Arthur) so he didn't really write too much about the music, or what the songs meant.
Right...as a drummer I can identify with how a drummer gets to sit back and watch the process, not being in the middle of it all. But such a position offers a great perch to observe and see a lot....something not afforded the artists in the middle of the fray! That is something Michael told me....a drummer gets a unique perspective that no other band member really has. Sort of, observing from on high! And it is about the long strange trip it all was.....from Michael's view.
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 02:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
[quote]Originally posted by lemonade kid
AM I the only one who finds Pegasus Carousel to be a very good read and a fine bit of
Love history. I don't see PC being anymore "mean" than any other honest bio of
Arthur and LoVE. Arthur is always put in a "bad light" throughout his life, if that
bit of history is honest. But Arthur was at the same time, a loving and giving man....
the nature of the beast.
Michael was in a top band for the day, and was wooed away by a band (LOVE) that
seemed to appeal more to Michael's creative spirit...to rise to even greater levels of creativity.
The Sons of Adam a top band? I dont even think they were able to get a record deal.
His bad experiences with drugs were never blamed on Arthur but rather, on the
times and the easy access to drugs that was afforded every popular band of the day.
Just look at the losses in the rock industry due to drug overuse. Michael is not
whining...he is telling it like it is. What I get is the same thing I get from almost
every one to ever play with Arthur.....what an honor to have had the chance to
play Arthur's music, but what an equally wonderful and frustrating time they had.
In many cases, as shown by Michael in PC, the bandmates were the screw-ups more often than Arthur.
Arthur was a sweet. paranoid genius. He promised much $ to his bandmates
and would rarely follow through....that was Arthur. His fear of being ripped off
by....well just about everyone, caused him to do the same to friends and foes
alike. But it is part of all that made Arthur a genius. So many of our 60's artists
are now thought to have been bi-polar or to have some such illness....and a very
few led to tragedy--but if Arthur Lee or Gene Clark or Phil Ochs had been
medicated (tho the meds of today were not even available then), would they have
been medicated down to a manageable but uncreative state?
That debate can go on forever.....but I cherish any and all personal accounts of
any surviving LoVE band member and am still waiting for Johnny's, or Snooop's...
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK
I am not a doctor so i cant say if anyone is bi polar, but i suspect that then entire band may have very well been candidates for bi polarism. He has amnesia as to his other bandmates, in the book their behvior was always exemplary.
AL didnt promise them BIG MONEY, he was not their sugar daddy. They had their contractual royalties written out in the record contract, and MSW got his settlement, after which there was no obligation on Arhtur part.(whether he shared his windfall with the other band members i dont know, he may have him being such a great person who so loved his bandmates). If he is angling for publishing money he may as well forget about it. Hes got to let go of his anger, nobody forced him to settle. He got a bundle in 1971 dollars.
The Sons of Adam a top band? Now thats one chapter i want to read.[B)
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 05:30:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Michaels book is fine, though he wasn't really close to the creative heart of the band (Bryan/Arthur) so he didn't really write too much about the music, or what the songs meant.
He was everywhere tho, checking out Arthur for mistakes, and he is oblique about it. The story about Arthur being mean to the roadie/fan.
He doesn't come out and criticize Arthur he has Bryan do the talking as in
"Hey Michael, Arthur shouldn't have treated that fan like that".
How he can remember such mundane events but has amnesia about the big picture really make me think.
And the story about Arthur and the carton of OJ, that is a classic. Sour grapes. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 17:13:59
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You must have read a different book, waxburn. I see no anger or bitterness... maybe the only member I see that from is Snoop in his personal recollections of Arthur over the years.
And yes, Sons of Adam was doing well at the time....as well or better than many bands on the Strip..that is why they caught the eye of Arthur. Granted they hit their ceiling and went no further, hence Michael's desire for greater heights as a musician, but they were a good band.
SO, I believe it ALL is a matter if personal vision (on our part too) and this debate is a bit pointless and we both will likely never see eye to eye. If you read Einarson's book, or any other account, Arthur was a tiny bit difficult when it came to band finances, and there are accounts of LoVE band-mates not getting paid throughout the decades of playing with Arthur. But again, MSW has long gotten past it and PC is a good read and PERSONAL account....as are the various accounts by Arthur from his unfinished autobiography that was included in Einarsin's book....again all PERSONAL accounts....colored by personal prejudices and experience.
No one is saying they are gospel, just memories of a great experience that I am sure Michael would not trade for the world...which he said himself
The drugs are what really killed his rock band experience and he never blamed Arthur for that.
Arthur's treatment of fans and journalists is well documented, but these are also recollections....by everyone involved. Yet that is what we are after anyway.
Tainted or colored by personal vision, as everyone's memories are, that is thankfully something we are blessed to have from Arthur, and Michael, and Johnny.
Great fun all round, and I saw more fun and affectionate memories of Arthur than bad in PC...even the ones that put Arthur in a bit of a bad light, they still never seemed mean spirited to me....and, as I keep harping, every memory can be taken with a grain of salt.
But for now, kind regards and Cheers, Waxburn. Maybe we can find somewhere else to agree....
If this had a polling box, I would ask everyone whether they saw Pegasus Carousel as an unvarnished, personal recollection of a great drummer from the 60's..... or a mean spirited, bitter account by a jolted artist?
But that would be all too black and white, as this debate has become...so sorry to all, and to waxburm, if I got too personal.....
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 12/11/2010 18:15:43 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 20:24:06
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I don't know man, I doubt Michael was happy about Arthur giving him the runaround about the royalties and saying they were going towards the costs for the album
Was it a happy experience for him? Dunno. The book is a reason why NOT to do drugs
Drugs would seem to have been why the band broke up. Forever Changes was recorded (just BARELY!)
and with pointed lines like "I keep on building my hopes, you keep on knocking them down" ...
I forget whether that (Your mind and we single) came out before Arthur abandoned them on tour
I was always surprised they didn't just do that gig WITHOUT Arthur, actually, but maybe the group was too into scoring heroine by that point? At least thats how it seemed when they were in NY |
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LeeRob
Fifth Love
397 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 20:43:03
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My cranky old self says, look, many of us know actual, behind the scenes facts about Arthur; stuff the tabloids are made of. He was a very head strong, complicated guy. He was also a leader; leaders tend to cut to the quick and have it their way. The gossip news on Arthur is that he could really be a class A jerk, but that's the drama and the fire; the music and the poetry, was the real focus of Arthur's public life.
Michael's book tells it like it was from Michael's prespective, it is a very good piece of work, there may be more chummy stories about Bryan and the others because they hung out more. Arthur seemed aloof, his energy scattered by habits and desires and the schedules which he hated.
I replaced my old boss a number of years back, he was a good guy, but I could tell you some stories. . . that's just the way it works.
Oh, and as far as Arthur saying he "didn't know Michael," If you remember when he and Johnny got back together some years ago, Arthtur said, (paraphrase)- I don't know who he is, he says he's Johnny Echols. -
Arthur was himself, it comes out in every book, and in Michael's in a very interesting and entertaining way.
It's all the same day. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 21:31:12
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Michael wasn't happy. Johnny wasn't happy. Bryan wasn't happy. The royalty issue was justifiably tense. Michael just happened to write a book.
You are right, Joe...PC is an account of a musician's rise in rock fame, and later, fall, into drugs. Arthur and company just happened to be a part of it.
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 21:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
You must have read a different book, waxburn. I see no anger or bitterness... maybe the only member I see that from is Snoop in his personal recollections of Arthur over the years.
And yes, Sons of Adam was doing well at the time....as well or better than many bands on the Strip..that is why they caught the eye of Arthur. Granted they hit their ceiling and went no further, hence Michael's desire for greater heights as a musician, but they were a good band.
SO, I believe it ALL is a matter if personal vision (on our part too) and this debate is a bit pointless and we both will likely never see eye to eye. If you read Einarson's book, or any other account, Arthur was a tiny bit difficult when it came to band finances, and there are accounts of LoVE band-mates not getting paid throughout the decades of playing with Arthur. But again, MSW has long gotten past it and PC is a good read and PERSONAL account....as are the various accounts by Arthur from his unfinished autobiography that was included in Einarsin's book....again all PERSONAL accounts....colored by personal prejudices and experience.
No one is saying they are gospel, just memories of a great experience that I am sure Michael would not trade for the world...which he said himself
The drugs are what really killed his rock band experience and he never blamed Arthur for that.
Arthur's treatment of fans and journalists is well documented, but these are also recollections....by everyone involved. Yet that is what we are after anyway.
Tainted or colored by personal vision, as everyone's memories are, that is thankfully something we are blessed to have from Arthur, and Michael, and Johnny.
Great fun all round, and I saw more fun and affectionate memories of Arthur than bad in PC...even the ones that put Arthur in a bit of a bad light, they still never seemed mean spirited to me....and, as I keep harping, every memory can be taken with a grain of salt.
But for now, kind regards and Cheers, Waxburn. Maybe we can find somewhere else to agree....
If this had a polling box, I would ask everyone whether they saw Pegasus Carousel as an unvarnished, personal recollection of a great drummer from the 60's..... or a mean spirited, bitter account by a jolted artist?
But that would be all too black and white, as this debate has become...so sorry to all, and to waxburm, if I got too personal.....
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK
You can hardly find the Sons of Adam in the internet. Now thats a feat. By 66, by all acounts they were toast anyways, a sinking ship.
The book is a veiled attack against Arthur Lee, but since he couldnt come out and say certain things, specially with AL alive he goes thru
the whole Arhtur and the carton OJ story.
Having others talk, amazing he could remember what Bryan and Tjay said 40 years ago, about unimportant matters. When i read the book there was a point where i had to stop and think to myself, that
hee must think we are marks. |
Edited by - waxburn on 13/11/2010 02:14:10 |
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Pegasus Carousel preorder
