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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
 Posted - 28/11/2010 : 21:02:36
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Residuals for the songwriter's song do and should reside with the songwriter only. Thus the jealousy of the other Byrds (for example) for Gene Clark's early riches while the others suffered in "poverty". Band members that record the songs and perform should get their fair share in album sales/royalties and for performing. So Arthur would get more $$ for the songwriting....and he should share, & share alike, the royalties for the albums' sales with the band-- for the joint creation of the recorded tracks...if that is the case, as it was with Love.
Fair enough? Love was never an Arthur Lee show with session guys that work for scale, brought in to back him up. It was always LOVE, with Arthur as the leader and front man, but it was still LOVE.
Though I do believe later Love incarnations could more reasonably be called Arthur Lee and Love.
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We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 28/11/2010 21:09:36 |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 28/11/2010 : 21:27:39
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Like Snoop said there was no love lost amongst the members of LOVE, the Neil Diamond band probably fills the description of a perfect union of musicians than Love. I think Ron Tutt played with ND for many years.
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I have to dispute Snoopy's assertions. [He] was the odd man out, and quite bitter about his status. As for the rest of the group, the situation was entirely different. People who do not like each other, do not continually find a way to live together, and hang-out together.
They lived together, even after they started making money, and didn't need to be room mates for financial reasons. When they got their own houses, they were all in the same area. If you saw one member of Love, invariably the others were near-by. It was common knowledge amongst the people who knew them, these guys, were almost inseparable.
Not only did they "hang" with each other. They had their own "lingo" which no one knew except members of the group, and a few close friends. They were always laughing, and kidding one another. Check-out the end of the Love dvd, those guys truly liked each other, on a personal level. Things only started to change, when they were near the end of their run. Girlfriends, hangers-on, money and egos clearly came between them. Snoopy was obviously on a slash and burn trip!
GMM |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 28/11/2010 : 21:45:35
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[quote]Originally posted by lemonade kid
Residuals for the songwriter's song do and should reside with the songwriter only. Thus the jealousy of the other Byrds (for example) for Gene Clark's early riches while the others suffered in "poverty". Band members that record the songs and perform should get their fair share in album sales/royalties and for performing. So Arthur would get more $$ for the songwriting....and he should share, & share alike, the royalties for the albums' sales with the band-- for the joint creation of the recorded tracks...if that is the case, as it was with Love.
Fair enough? Love was never an Arthur Lee show with session guys that work for scale, brought in to back him up. It was always LOVE, with Arthur as the leader and front man, but it was still LOVE.
You do know this is the music business. Fair has nothing to with any of it.
Fair would be for all the great musicians that played in LOVE, the greatest guitar players, bass players and drummers, all world class greats, to write the songs and give Arthur a cut.
When someone writes a good song, it benefits the band. The record sells and the record royalties multiply. Once Gene Clark moved out the songwriting went downhill, they were never the same. They had more of the publishing but the records sold less and less and in the end they would have been better off with Gene Clarks songs, in MHO, and would have ended up with more money in their pocket. |
Edited by - waxburn on 28/11/2010 22:03:05 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 28/11/2010 : 21:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Like Snoop said there was no love lost amongst the members of LOVE, the Neil Diamond band probably fills the description of a perfect union of musicians than Love. I think Ron Tutt played with ND for many years.
I have to dispute Snoopy's assertions. [He] was the odd man out, and quite bitter about his status. As for the rest of the group, the situation was entirely different. People who do not like each other, do not continually find a way to live together, and hang-out together.
They lived together, even after they started making money, and didn't need to be room mates for financial reasons. When they got their own houses, they were all in the same area. If you saw one member of Love, invariably the others were near-by. It was common knowledge amongst the people who knew them, these guys, were almost inseparable.
Not only did they "hang" with each other. They had their own "lingo" which no one knew except members of the group, and a few close friends. They were always laughing, and kidding one another. Check-out the end of the Love dvd, those guys truly liked each other, on a personal level. Things only started to change, when they were near the end of their run. Girlfriends, hangers-on, money and egos clearly came between them. Snoopy was obviously on a slash and burn trip!
GMM
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Why am i not surprised that Snoop assertions are a no go? If he talks ill of Arthur then its very valid but when he says something about the others, its to be disputed and hes bitter etc.. I think Snoop is not the only bitter ex LOVE band member.
MSW was in the band maybe a year, they hung together mostly for financial reasons, and briefly at that. By 1968 everyone had gone their own way.
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Edited by - waxburn on 28/11/2010 22:14:37 |
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gatemouthmoore
Fourth Love
202 Posts |
Posted - 28/11/2010 : 23:02:45
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Now you're being obstinate, just for the sake of obstinacy!!
In 1964,and 65, Arthur, and Johnny lived together. In late 65 they moved in with Bryan.
In 1966, Arthur Bryan Kenny and Johnny lived together in the "Castle." In 1967, Arthur and Bryan lived in the same house. Johnny and Kenny lived less than a hundred yards away. Later that year Johnny and Michael shared a house.
They chose to share houses because they liked each other. They could easily have afforded to live alone. If they needed help, It would have been very easy for them to have room-mates, who would have paid all of the rent. Love were "Chick Magnets," most guys would have jumped at the chance to be part of their scene.
As I said by 1968, other forces were at play, even though they were earning far less money, they chose to live separately, when they could least afford it. Snoopy was just a very bitter young kid, who was always the "odd" man out. He himself states "nobody liked me, I didn't fit-in." People who hate each other, rarely form groups....Why would they? Arthur and Johnny had formed several groups, they had no idea what was to come! |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 00:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Now you're being obstinate, just for the sake of obstinacy!!
In 1964,and 65, Arthur, and Johnny lived together. In late 65 they moved in with Bryan.
In 1966, Arthur Bryan Kenny and Johnny lived together in the "Castle." In 1967, Arthur and Bryan lived in the same house. Johnny and Kenny lived less than a hundred yards away. Later that year Johnny and Michael shared a house.
They chose to share houses because they liked each other. They could easily have afforded to live alone. If they needed help, It would have been very easy for them to have room-mates, who would have paid all of the rent. Love were "Chick Magnets," most guys would have jumped at the chance to be part of their scene.
As I said by 1968, other forces were at play, even though they were earning far less money, they chose to live separately, when they could least afford it. Snoopy was just a very bitter young kid, who was always the "odd" man out. He himself states "nobody liked me, I didn't fit-in." People who hate each other, rarely form groups....Why would they? Arthur and Johnny had formed several groups, they had no idea what was to come!
Arthur for got his place as soon as he could afford it. Liked his privacy.
In Buffalos book they tell about the times they live over Vitos place(first Bryan and then the other two moved in) and later the Castle and it basically for financial reasons. Nobody would want to live in those conditions unless they had to. They were hangouts to party. Cheap. Yes you got your chick magnets but if you been involved in the music thing you know that there all different kinds of 'chicks'. i wasnt there so i cant speak to that situation.
If you read Pegasus Carousel, you can tell they didnt live in the lap of luxury, and were complaining about lack of money from the get to.
By 1968 conditions changed, no doubt. If they liked each other so much they could have gotten together and started another band, maybe with Bryan who had the recording deal.
As for Snoopy he comes across as the one whose most honest about the whole thing. |
Edited by - waxburn on 29/11/2010 00:11:43 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 01:25:52
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Interesting thread this
I've been studying copyright law (what with starting to write songs and all) and from what I can gather there are mechanical & artist royalties
I just don't see how people who played on recordings from so many years back should be getting artist royalties on those recordings.
Just throwing that one out there!
On the plus side, Love DID make an effort to own their own publishing from Elektra (which seems unusual at the time) (would be the times! or between Clark & Hilldale)
Other bands like the Kinks signed away their rights to their songs in perpetuity. Dave talks about this to great length in his book Kink
And we all know what a terrible deal the Beatles got, up until Abbey road royalties-wise:
'Barry meanwhile had also spent a year in bed as a tax dodge. Eric Manchester, the Rutles press agent, thinks that he either had appalling financial advice or he was deperately trying to start a "Barry is also dead" rumour. When he finally got up to answer the telephone, Rutle Corps was in a perilous financial state.
Nasty had flown back in a hurry from his honeymoon to meet Ron Decline, the most feared promoter in the world, in an attempt to settle Rutle Corps' appalling financial problems.
Unfortunately, Stig was now accepting the financial advice of Billy Kodak, Dirk had hired Arnold Schwarzenweisengreenenbluenbraunenburger to handle his end of the name, and Barry was consulting the I Ching every three and a half minutes.
In the midst of this public and legal wrangling Let It Rot was released as a film, an album, and a lawsuit. It showed the Rutles as never before; tired, unhappy, cross, and just like the rest of the world.
In December 1970 Dirk sued Stig and Nasty, Barry sued Dirk, Nasty sued Stig and Barry, and Stig sued himself accidentally. It was the end of a golden era, and the beginning of another one for lawyers everywhere.'
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 01:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Interesting thread this
I've been studying copyright law (what with starting to write songs and all) and from what I can gather there are mechanical & artist royalties
I just don't see how people who played on recordings from so many years back should be getting artist royalties on those recordings.
Just throwing that one out there!
On the plus side, Love DID make an effort to own their own publishing from Elektra (which seems unusual at the time) (would be the times! or between Clark & Hilldale)
Other bands like the Kinks signed away their rights to their songs in perpetuity. Dave talks about this to great length in his book Kink
And we all know what a terrible deal the Beatles got, up until Abbey road royalties-wise:
'Barry meanwhile had also spent a year in bed as a tax dodge. Eric Manchester, the Rutles press agent, thinks that he either had appalling financial advice or he was deperately trying to start a "Barry is also dead" rumour. When he finally got up to answer the telephone, Rutle Corps was in a perilous financial state.
Nasty had flown back in a hurry from his honeymoon to meet Ron Decline, the most feared promoter in the world, in an attempt to settle Rutle Corps' appalling financial problems.
Unfortunately, Stig was now accepting the financial advice of Billy Kodak, Dirk had hired Arnold Schwarzenweisengreenenbluenbraunenburger to handle his end of the name, and Barry was consulting the I Ching every three and a half minutes.
In the midst of this public and legal wrangling Let It Rot was released as a film, an album, and a lawsuit. It showed the Rutles as never before; tired, unhappy, cross, and just like the rest of the world.
In December 1970 Dirk sued Stig and Nasty, Barry sued Dirk, Nasty sued Stig and Barry, and Stig sued himself accidentally. It was the end of a golden era, and the beginning of another one for lawyers everywhere.'
I would suggest you self publish, that way when you make your cds and sell them if you dont pay yourself the mechanicals you can sue yourself. |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 05:43:31
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I just don't see how people who played on recordings from so many years back should not be getting artist royalties on those recordings,
I meant to say
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sometimesmylifeissoeerie
Fourth Love
198 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 07:05:36
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Even the arrangers (like David Angel on FC) don't see a dime of royalties from the recordings they've arranged.
This is carried to absolute absurdity in the karaoke field, where people sing over arrangers' work and the arrangers/orchestrators don't see a penny.
GM- don't fret; we know the truth. |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 13:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by sometimesmylifeissoeerie
Even the arrangers (like David Angel on FC) don't see a dime of royalties from the recordings they've arranged.
This is carried to absolute absurdity in the karaoke field, where people sing over arrangers' work and the arrangers/orchestrators don't see a penny.
GM- don't fret; we know the truth.
Why would David Angel have to get royalties? He was paid for a job, never was he promised any royalties? Botnick needs to get royalties too?
Who else has to receive royalties? 
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Edited by - waxburn on 29/11/2010 13:21:37 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 13:11:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
I just don't see how people who played on recordings from so many years back should not be getting artist royalties on those recordings,
I meant to say
Theres many reasons why. They may have sold their rights, there may not be any royalties to be paid.
Maybe all the Love fans from the 60s who attended shows should also get a point or two. |
Edited by - waxburn on 29/11/2010 13:22:36 |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 29/11/2010 : 17:40:05
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Now that's just silly.
If you signed a royalty contract, you get royalties. If you signed a contract that paid outright for a job/gig. you got paid and you are done. Never depend on a band mate  or friend to get the royalties, fees or whatever to you...NEVER. Royalties are, & should be, paid for as long as an album (book etc) is out there, reissued or whatever, and sells.
Sessions guys don't get royalties, but the best are highly paid, and don't have to worry about whether an album sells. They already got the money.
____________________________________________________________
We need Hippies, now, more than ever...
-LK |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 29/11/2010 17:41:04 |
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 00:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Now you're being obstinate, just for the sake of obstinacy!!
KD: Here, here Gate. I for one would take his posts
a bit more seriously, without all the         
Free the ! |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 00:58:20
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quote:
Originally posted by kdion11
quote:
Originally posted by gatemouthmoore
Now you're being obstinate, just for the sake of obstinacy!!
KD: Here, here Gate. I for one would take his posts
a bit more seriously, without all the
Free the !
How many points do you need? Im tallying up. |
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