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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 27/07/2005 : 03:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyboy
Waxburn is an annoying jackass.
That depends on your POV.
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bob f.
Old Love
USA
1308 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 03:52:18
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| i, too was at the henry fonda '03, up in the balcony, in heaven! the other show i loved was at Knitting Factory , their first show there, right after Spaceland( 1st gig ). Wilshire Ebell show with Zombies was great!!!! notice i didn't mention UCLA's Royce Hall concert , which i was at!? |
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 10:29:19
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Tina is right and I, for one, don't think anyone with any sense would deny that Arthur did produce some wonderful tunes and has, over the years put on some great, no fantastic, gigs. As John E said, I have never attended a 'bad' Love show either but, sadly, I do know plenty of people who have...strangely enough though, most of them seem to either be in the USA or mainland Europe..I wonder why that was the case?
As I said somewhere else though, when the history of Love is written it is important to look at the contributions of ALL the band members over the years because, as Mike so recently reminded us, it may be that their contribution to the songwriting is far more than they have previously been given credit for. |
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Allan
Old Love
USA
560 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 14:58:42
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Caryne
quote:
As I said somewhere else though, when the history of Love is written it is important to look at the contributions of ALL the band members over the years because, as Mike so recently reminded us, it may be that their contribution to the songwriting is far more than they have previously been given credit for.
The original LOVE were 5 (sometimes 7 with Snoopy and T-Jay) very talented people that managed to play together as a band. We all know Bryan's contributions to the band and especially with song-writing. I think Arthur probably took suggestions from the other members as songs were being developed and somehow those suggestions became Arthur's product.
I'm in e-mail contact with Michael Stuart, and we communicate fairly regularly. I know there are other members here that e-mail with Michael as well. Michael once told me that he 'wrote' all the drum parts in FC, and that he is very proud to have been part of the music and the band. The tunes were first laid down by accoustic guitar (Arthur and Bryan), and I'm thinking that all the members 'wrote' their own individual parts for the songs. I agree with you Caryne that the band members were probably more involved with the songwriting than they have been given credit for.
As an after-thought...listen to the words on 'My Flash on You'. They go something like this...
"I don't want to be in your company. I don't want for you to take care of me. Let me 'lone, let me 'lone, let me 'lone, why can't you let me be. All I want is to be a man that's free"
Is the song Arthur's autobiography? He's always sort of alienated himself from the rest of the band, and I feel it was/is by his choice. Where one might think with these words that Arthur is very cool and that he doesn't need anybody, lately it feels that Arthur had/has a superiority complex. As has happenned in the past, when Arthur is on the brink to something special, he always manages to tear it apart
Allan
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 15:53:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
Caryne
quote:
As I said somewhere else though, when the history of Love is written it is important to look at the contributions of ALL the band members over the years because, as Mike so recently reminded us, it may be that their contribution to the songwriting is far more than they have previously been given credit for.
The original LOVE were 5 (sometimes 7 with Snoopy and T-Jay) very talented people that managed to play together as a band. We all know Bryan's contributions to the band and especially with song-writing. I think Arthur probably took suggestions from the other members as songs were being developed and somehow those suggestions became Arthur's product.
I'm in e-mail contact with Michael Stuart, and we communicate fairly regularly. I know there are other members here that e-mail with Michael as well. Michael once told me that he 'wrote' all the drum parts in FC, and that he is very proud to have been part of the music and the band. The tunes were first laid down by accoustic guitar (Arthur and Bryan), and I'm thinking that all the members 'wrote' their own individual parts for the songs. I agree with you Caryne that the band members were probably more involved with the songwriting than they have been given credit for.
As an after-thought...listen to the words on 'My Flash on You'. They go something like this...
"I don't want to be in your company. I don't want for you to take care of me. Let me 'lone, let me 'lone, let me 'lone, why can't you let me be. All I want is to be a man that's free"
Is the song Arthur's autobiography? He's always sort of alienated himself from the rest of the band, and I feel it was/is by his choice. Where one might think with these words that Arthur is very cool and that he doesn't need anybody, lately it feels that Arthur had/has a superiority complex. As has happenned in the past, when Arthur is on the brink to something special, he always manages to tear it apart
Allan
A similar argument is made by Levon Helm of the Band, that
all the members of the BAND contributed to the writing of the songs, while Robbie Robertson took the credit. Not surprisingly, Levon is broke.
I have to admit that writing "drum' parts is a new one to me. I would be hard pressed to come up with an example where someone
received a writing credit for 'writing' a drum part to a song.
Maybe someone out there can think of an example
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mikeb
Old Love
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 17:22:23
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Someone who works in the music industry could probably tell us what accepted practice, if there is any, is with regard to songwriting credits where someone comes in with the basic melody, words and structure and the rest of the band work on the arrangements in the studio and at rehearsals. I am sure Arthur did not always follow it.
Love's labelmates at the times the Doors songs were all credited to The Doors, would that have meant that everyone got an even split? As you have mentioned with The Band I am sure Love were not the only band where this was an issue.
A month or so back, and I cant remember the tune, I heard a documentary where someone had been recording a song at Muscle Shoals and it was not working out, Spooner Oldham came in the next day with just a small piece of music he had worked out on the keyboard to put into the arrangement and it became a massive hit, got a feeling it was one of Arethra Franklin's. I checked my copy and he got a songwriting credit but I guess that would not necessarily mean 50%. |
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astrolobe33
Fifth Love
USA
381 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 17:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
I have to admit that writing "drum' parts is a new one to me. I would be hard pressed to come up with an example where someone
received a writing credit for 'writing' a drum part to a song.
Maybe someone out there can think of an example
"Parts is parts"   |
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gordo
Third Love
United Kingdom
91 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 17:39:59
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on the upcoming Big Star album, all the songs are credited to the band as a whole but according to Jon Auer the percentage split differs from song to song. On his website it says
"Hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to list my credits...All songs are credited to the four of us but the publishing split depends on the song...There's a song that Ken gets 70% and the rest of us get 10% and there's a song called "Lady Sweet" that I get 70% and the rest get 10%"
just thought I would muddy the waters further  |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 17:49:44
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quote:
Originally posted by mikeb
Someone who works in the music industry could probably tell us what accepted practice, if there is any, is with regard to songwriting credits where someone comes in with the basic melody, words and structure and the rest of the band work on the arrangements in the studio and at rehearsals. I am sure Arthur did not always follow it.
Love's labelmates at the times the Doors songs were all credited to The Doors, would that have meant that everyone got an even split? As you have mentioned with The Band I am sure Love were not the only band where this was an issue.
A month or so back, and I cant remember the tune, I heard a documentary where someone had been recording a song at Muscle Shoals and it was not working out, Spooner Oldham came in the next day with just a small piece of music he had worked out on the keyboard to put into the arrangement and it became a massive hit, got a feeling it was one of Arethra Franklin's. I checked my copy and he got a songwriting credit but I guess that would not necessarily mean 50%.
I don't think there is any "established" practice per se, and you are right, the splits vary, on the contribution( some writers are known to be generous, giving 50% credit for minor contributions).
Outright selling of songs is not common but not rare either.
The problem arises when gripes surface decades after the fact, when
the publishing comes into play, and record sales are a thing of the past. |
Edited by - waxburn on 27/07/2005 17:50:26 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 17:54:03
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quote:
Originally posted by astrolobe33
quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
I have to admit that writing "drum' parts is a new one to me. I would be hard pressed to come up with an example where someone
received a writing credit for 'writing' a drum part to a song.
Maybe someone out there can think of an example
"Parts is parts"
Don't buy any 'drum parts' on ebay.
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Allan
Old Love
USA
560 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 19:44:12
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that Arthur may have brought the concept of a song to the table and may have even been able to lay the tracks down accoustically with Bryan's help, but I don't think Arthur wrote Johnny's lead guitar riff parts, or Kenny's bass lines, or Bryan's 2nd guitar licks, or Michael's drum parts. At least I know he didn't write Michael Stuart's drum parts.
This all kind of ties in with previous discussions about the band. Would Arthur have been as well known to us through his songs if he didn't have the talented musicians behind him that pulled it all together?
I don't think Arthur could have come along without LOVE back then...but it sounds like LOVE can get along without Arthur now.
quote:
As I said somewhere else though, when the history of Love is written it is important to look at the contributions of ALL the band members over the years because, as Mike so recently reminded us, it may be that their contribution to the songwriting is far more than they have previously been given credit for.
mikeb.-I think The Doors all signed a paper early on, stating that none of them would play as "The Doors" without the others.
I don't think Arthur has the rights or copyrights to LOVE, so I think there could be a 'LOVE with John Echols'. But I'm also okay with 'The LOVE Band' too 
Allan
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Edited by - Allan on 27/07/2005 19:48:10 |
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mikeb
Old Love
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
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steve64
Fifth Love
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 21:22:34
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Yeah John Densmore won the court case to stop the band touring as The Doors or even The Doors 21st Century! but they are now gonna be known as D21C!  this has caused many arguments amongst Doors fans! he won it partly because of something all 4 members signed in I think 1971! the others were worried that Jim would form a new Doors when he went to Europe so they had an agreement that the Doors name could only be used if all members agreed! of course after Jim died the others toured and released 2 more studio albums as The Doors! the 3 of them also did the Storytellers show/dvd in 2000 where they played with guest vocalists including Ian Astbury,after that show Ray and Robby wanted to tour again and do a new album! John did not so took them to court and won the case...
Jim Morrison R.I.P. - Pere Lachaise - Paris - July 3rd 2005 -
hey ho! lets go! |
Edited by - steve64 on 27/07/2005 21:34:50 |
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Fred in Bed
Third Love
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2005 : 22:33:37
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I remember reading the sleeve notes of one of the albums - I think it was the first - where Johnny basically says that if someone contributed words to one of Arthur's songs then they'd get a credit but if it was music he... hang on, I'll go get it...
Here we go:
"I think if somebody contributed words to something, [Arthur] would consider them as a songwriter. But if they just did the music, I don't think he's ever realized that that's as much a part of a song as the words. I think that was his demarcation point."
and also
"Everybody wrote 'And More'. I'm not sure if everybody got writers' credit [they didn't, it's credited Lee/Maclean]. Just playing the music, that was the most important thing. I think they did bring the song to the other members of the group and we added stuff to it. It was basically their song." |
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Susan B.
Third Love
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2005 : 07:13:11
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I just got back in town Monday Night. We took our son up to one of the northern counties and settled him into college at Humboldt State University. It was so cool with young hippies living in the park. I talked to them and they were so full of Love. I ended up giving some a couple of $'s. It was like the Haight in 1967 before hard drugs raised it's ugly head. Wish I could have been there.
Sunday Night we stayed in Monterey, CA (the pop festival - the one that Arthur didn't want to play) at 10:30 P.M. we were at the entrance to the pier and Arthur walked by. It was cold and he was wearing a black coat (like a Pea Coat with a hood.) He flashed on me and then I flashed on him. (That is a total look of recognition.) He also was carrying a guitar case and had a dog (it could have been a pit bull. He carried it on a rope Leash of some sort. My daughter and husband were with me or I would have followed him. (could not do my husband bites and my daughter has hysterics)
If it wasn't Arthur, he must have a double. How many people look like Arthur?
P.S.: Arthur is 60 or 61 yrs old. He has had a substance abuse problem for a long time. He needs to rest. He has a lot of bagage.
I think that he needs to cut back on his schedule. Guys his age don't tour as much as he has since 2002. In the mean time it doesn,t sound as if you really need him. You have Johnny and that is so cool. Keeping a low profile and chillin in Arizona and New York. He is the second Love member that epitomized the flavor of the band and the era that it was created. |
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Topic |
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Update on Arthur
