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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2010 : 23:34:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
have fun over there man
Flowers sounding pretty good - been immersed in Exile on Main Street all week myself! 
the DOORS fans will take their sessions with so and so, seriously. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 00:11:14
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Waxburn ...you seem to have a bug up your a## about Michael...what's with you?
I ask that with a kind heart...seriously.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 00:27:55
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[quote]Originally posted by lemonade kid
Waxburn ...you seem to have a bug up your a## about Michael...what's with you?
I ask that with a kind heart...seriously.
Wasn't referring to MSW don't get jumpy.
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Edited by - waxburn on 06/12/2010 03:35:51 |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 07:53:31
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quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
[quote]Originally posted by lemonade kid
Waxburn ...you seem to have a bug up your a## about Michael...what's with you?
I ask that with a kind heart...seriously.
Wasn't referring to MSW don't get jumpy.
So sorry....
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 16:54:47
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so whats going on over there lk? any news on Gethesemene or Love's rocky relationship with Elektra
The Springfield box IS ace btw - one of the songs early on on disc 1 is EXACTLY like Moby Grape's "Omaha" though!! |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 17:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
so whats going on over there lk? any news on Gethesemene or Love's rocky relationship with Elektra
The Springfield box IS ace btw - one of the songs early on on disc 1 is EXACTLY like Moby Grape's "Omaha" though!!
Grape copied Springfield on that one, but that happened a bit...Stones borrowing from Love?.....never!
_____________________________________________________________________________
About Gethesemene.....btw, Johnny says the likes of David Angel are involved.....
"Gethsemene, is most definitely still on the table. It has sort of morphed into ideas that were developed during group get togethers or "jams". Some of the songs were worked on by members of Love, and not quite finished. But most were written by me alone. This is a work in progress, still in the process of being sorted out. I know many folks are impatient, wondering if this is ever going to happen. From my perspective, finishing and releasing this "album" is my highest musical priority [period.] Stay tuned! JE."
______________________________________________________________________________
And there are some really interesting bits about the FC sessions.....
"The facts are, if the volume on the intro to "Alone Again" had been any louder, Bryan's "noisy" steel finger picks would have been a distraction.
Problems with Revelation aside, Paul Rothschild was an excellent
"Mastering" engineer. Who did one hell of a job, considering what he had to work with.
He was dealing with a working tape, that was very very noisy. Due to alignment and other techincal problems. Going from a three track studio to an eight track facility, sometimes caused issues that were insurmountable. Being transfered so many times, losing generations in the process, didn't help. It is a miracle it sounds as good as it does.
We didn't have Cedar and Protools back in the day. The mixing was done on the fly, "realtime." If the recording engineer wasn't on his toes, you had a problem. -JE"
_______________________________________________________________________________
" We were all in such a dither back then, it's hard to say which came first. Though after the debacle, the first time around, we did make a concerted effort to work out our parts before coming back to the studio.
We had the rather "expensive" habit of finishing the prep work on songs in the studio, rather than at our homes. So sometimes we had no real idea what the song would eventually morph into, until we were all together laying down tracks.
Alone Again, is a prime example. When Bryan first played it for me, it was more of a bluegrass tune, with a catchy instrumental hook.
In reality, it almost didn't make the cut. It just didn't seem to have that indefinable "something". It had a great "hook" but that was it. I was noodling over in the corner, When David Angel walks by and said "do that Spanish riff again". Then he brought Bryan over, and after much cajoling, convinced him we should try the song with a more Spanish feel. A very reluctant Bryan agreed, and [we,] with a whole lot of input from David, came up with the song you hear on record. Without Mr. Angel it would be a very, very different song.
Thanks for hearing me out....JE."
____________________________________________________________________________
"I always felt there were several factors that played heavily into the false start.
1) We hadn't been playing any live dates for months, so we were individually and collectively out of practice on our instruments,
2) Considering the complexity of the material, the group hadn't really rehearsed as much as we should have before going into the studio in the first place, and
3) All the "down time" in the months preceding the sessions equated to each of us sitting around and being bored and getting high a lot... which of course resulted in a severe lack of focus when we were called upon to perform in the pressure cooker.
The fix was relatively simple. Go home and practice more, get high less, focus, and then come back prepared. So we did.-MSW"
______________________________________________________________________________
"Jac Holtzman claims credit for many, many things. Most of which, he had minimal, or no involvement. I think because he was president of Elektra, he felt he deserved recognition for anything that happened on his watch. JE."
______________________________________________________________________________
Thanks here--- to Freed, Michael & Johnny.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 10/12/2010 17:35:49 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 02:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
so whats going on over there lk? any news on Gethesemene or Love's rocky relationship with Elektra
The Springfield box IS ace btw - one of the songs early on on disc 1 is EXACTLY like Moby Grape's "Omaha" though!!
Grape copied Springfield on that one, but that happened a bit...Stones borrowing from Love?.....never!
_____________________________________________________________________________
About Gethesemene.....btw, Johnny says the likes of David Angel are involved.....
"Gethsemene, is most definitely still on the table. It has sort of morphed into ideas that were developed during group get togethers or "jams". Some of the songs were worked on by members of Love, and not quite finished. But most were written by me alone. This is a work in progress, still in the process of being sorted out. I know many folks are impatient, wondering if this is ever going to happen. From my perspective, finishing and releasing this "album" is my highest musical priority [period.] Stay tuned! JE."
______________________________________________________________________________
And there are some really interesting bits about the FC sessions.....
"The facts are, if the volume on the intro to "Alone Again" had been any louder, Bryan's "noisy" steel finger picks would have been a distraction.
Problems with Revelation aside, Paul Rothschild was an excellent
"Mastering" engineer. Who did one hell of a job, considering what he had to work with.
He was dealing with a working tape, that was very very noisy. Due to alignment and other techincal problems. Going from a three track studio to an eight track facility, sometimes caused issues that were insurmountable. Being transfered so many times, losing generations in the process, didn't help. It is a miracle it sounds as good as it does.
We didn't have Cedar and Protools back in the day. The mixing was done on the fly, "realtime." If the recording engineer wasn't on his toes, you had a problem. -JE"
_______________________________________________________________________________
" We were all in such a dither back then, it's hard to say which came first. Though after the debacle, the first time around, we did make a concerted effort to work out our parts before coming back to the studio.
We had the rather "expensive" habit of finishing the prep work on songs in the studio, rather than at our homes. So sometimes we had no real idea what the song would eventually morph into, until we were all together laying down tracks.
Alone Again, is a prime example. When Bryan first played it for me, it was more of a bluegrass tune, with a catchy instrumental hook.
In reality, it almost didn't make the cut. It just didn't seem to have that indefinable "something". It had a great "hook" but that was it. I was noodling over in the corner, When David Angel walks by and said "do that Spanish riff again". Then he brought Bryan over, and after much cajoling, convinced him we should try the song with a more Spanish feel. A very reluctant Bryan agreed, and [we,] with a whole lot of input from David, came up with the song you hear on record. Without Mr. Angel it would be a very, very different song.
Thanks for hearing me out....JE."
____________________________________________________________________________
"I always felt there were several factors that played heavily into the false start.
1) We hadn't been playing any live dates for months, so we were individually and collectively out of practice on our instruments,
2) Considering the complexity of the material, the group hadn't really rehearsed as much as we should have before going into the studio in the first place, and
3) All the "down time" in the months preceding the sessions equated to each of us sitting around and being bored and getting high a lot... which of course resulted in a severe lack of focus when we were called upon to perform in the pressure cooker.
The fix was relatively simple. Go home and practice more, get high less, focus, and then come back prepared. So we did.-MSW"
______________________________________________________________________________
"Jac Holtzman claims credit for many, many things. Most of which, he had minimal, or no involvement. I think because he was president of Elektra, he felt he deserved recognition for anything that happened on his watch. JE."
______________________________________________________________________________
Thanks here--- to Freed, Michael & Johnny.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk
Interesting. Would be interested in knowing just what Holzman took credit for.
Looking forward to reading the writer credits on Gethsemane. I |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 02:43:46
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| Christ! I hope they don't rerecord "Bend down"!! |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 06:01:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Christ! I hope they don't rerecord "Bend down"!!
in Bryans first release, Ifyoubeleivein, Alone Again sure doesnt sound like a bluegrass tune. Sounds eerily similar to the released version, riff and all.
Only spanish thing on it is the horn, which i beleive Angel came up on his own( as stated in the Buffalo book), but apparently you never know.
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Edited by - waxburn on 11/12/2010 13:50:21 |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 19:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Christ! I hope they don't rerecord "Bend down"!!
in Bryans first release, Ifyoubeleivein, Alone Again sure doesnt sound like a bluegrass tune. Sounds eerily similar to the released version, riff and all.
Only spanish thing on it is the horn, which i beleive Angel came up on his own( as stated in the Buffalo book), but apparently you never know.
Right, that is why these tidbits from johnny are so interesting.....how songs sounded in their infancy, fresh out of their heads...and the input from Love that made the songs what they became.
Cool stuff.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 11/12/2010 19:02:25 |
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waxburn
Old Love
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2010 : 01:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
quote:
Originally posted by waxburn
[quote]Originally posted by Joe Morris
Christ! I hope they don't rerecord "Bend down"!!
in Bryans first release, Ifyoubeleivein, Alone Again sure doesnt sound like a bluegrass tune. Sounds eerily similar to the released version, riff and all.
Only spanish thing on it is the horn, which i beleive Angel came up on his own( as stated in the Buffalo book), but apparently you never know.
Right, that is why these tidbits from johnny are so interesting.....how songs sounded in their infancy, fresh out of their heads...and the input from Love that made the songs what they became.
Cool stuff.
No doubt about it. Slashing 'myths' left and right.
Could it be they snuck into the studio late and night and actually did the vocals too? |
Edited by - waxburn on 12/12/2010 07:10:38 |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 14:52:38
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| Mr. Angel and Alone Again Or....Personally, I'd wish he'd write a bit on that whole record. How many insights haven't we heard from him?? I'd think it would make a nice combo with John E's FC book. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 16:19:34
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Some more from Johnny at Freed's.....for our Love friend's here....
I remember the gig in Modesto, Jim and I were almost arrested, when we got into an argument with the security folks, who were off-duty cops.
They seemed to get off, [on] man handling these little girls who just wanted to touch us. One cop in particular, had a real problem with it. So the two of us got in his face.
Music is in the ear of the beholder, but I hardly think the Doors could have ever stolen a show from us, "sound wise". even in their wildest dreams.
They had no bass player. The sound was very light weight. More akin to a "lounge act" than a rock group.Teenie boppers, might have lusted after Jim, but there was no way any group, (the doors included could have touched our thing.)
Bring it on.....JE.
...and this about Jim Morrison
We kicked it at my house on Lookout mt, many many times. and often "jammed" for hours, with David Crosby, or whom ever dropped by. Tjay Cantrelli who lived down the street, would often play the flute, while Jim did what I call "stream of consciousness poetry". If I had only known at the time, there would be so much interest decades later. I would have had a recorder running twenty four seven.
It mostly is what it isn't......JE.
-------------------------------------------------------------
...and this question to Johnny--So we've got a pretty good idea about how you guys feel about Jac Holzman now.. what about Bruce Botnick? Any stories or opinions?.......
If I had to choose between them, My feelings for Jac are all warm and fuzzy. All of us had definite idea's about the way things should sound. Bruce was rather "old school" a purist, who wanted the sound to be clean, and undistorted. No experimenting. If we wanted distortion, or effects, he'd say "let's do it during mixdown!" I never trusted anyone's ability to create [my] sound after the fact. I needed to hear it live in the studio, so I could tweak it. Which left Botnick, and I continually at loggerheads. Arthur had some rather choice observations about the subject in his book, but the lawyers would have none of it. Too bad, it would have been quite informative! JE.
Thanks Johnny, and of course, my good friend--Ed the Freed!
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 17:20:11
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And to your question about some of the things Jac did to "control" Love, waxburn.....
Well let's see, Jac lowered parts of the vocal on Revelation, that [he] considered over the top. He changed the title of the song "Lonely Guitar" which I wrote when I was twelve, to "Emotions" and listed Arthur as co-writer, even though he was well aware that Arthur wasn't involved in any way. Jac Claimed, the title Lonely Guitar sounded too much like Herb Alperts' Lonely Bull. He maintained the mis-credit was just a mistake. The two of us never saw eye to eye.
He even tried to get Arthur to change the lyrics on Live and Let Live. Saying "Oh the Snot Has Caked Against My Pants" might offend people.
He was a very prudish man, fortunately Arthur stood his ground. -JE
And this about Arthur's rapping & more about Jac....
Arthurs "Rap" was a surprise in that it wasn't expected on that cut. We had been listening to a group called The Young Poets, who from my perspective were the first rap group. At least the first I'd ever heard.
Arthur often did what is now known as freestyle rhyming. After listening to them. He would break into rhyme, whenever he felt the notion. So [that] he would do it wasn't surprising, his choice of songs to do it on was.
As for Jac Holtzman, where do I start! His manipulation, and interference was an ongoing problem. So neither Arthur, or I were at all shocked, when he chose to edit one of our songs.
Seven and Seven is, required over fifty takes, mostly due to his, and Bruce Botnick's interference. Jac would say, you're too loud, there's too much treble, too much reverb, on and on it went. Why are you using such a loud and persistent vibrato? Now of course, he claims credit for the sound. As may be obvious, Mr. Holtzman was not one of our favorite people.
And so it goes.....JE.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 17:24:58
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Michael on OJ.....
Yeah, that was my first week in the group. All I know is what Kenny told me that day... Arthur had made a deal with a guy named Barry to leave some weed in his mailbox and take the money. When Arthur got home and checked the mailbox, no weed and the money he had left in there was gone. Later he's driving past the Canyon Country store and there's Barry sitting on the rail out front laughing it up and talking with some girls, so Arthur pulled over and stopped and beat him up.
He couldn't go there any more after that. Bill the owner like eighty-sixed him.
(Q-on having to get the OJ for Arthur....)
A-No I wasn't pissed at all. I thought it was kindly funny.
I remember the concept of Arthur being limited in that one little area was somehow fascinating. Kenny could go into the store, I could go into the store, but Arthur?.... he couldn't go into the store. Not even for OJ.--MSW
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 13/12/2010 18:13:36 |
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Michael & Johnny Q&A at Freed's
