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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2009 : 02:45:19
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Ya, Arthur said to Ken as Ken was doing some bass lines..."cool, you play the bass", as Carol was just not cutting it. Carol Kaye was put on guitar and was complaining about her poor fingers as she wasn't used to those skinny strings. Michael related that story first hand to me.
I gotta disagree about "Bummer In the Summer". I love it and it fits with the whole FC vibe and is the perfect segue into "You Set The Scene". I think "Wonder People" was out of sync with FC as were a number of Bryan's songs that were rejected. Holzman and Arthur must have agreed because there was room.
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 03:10:25
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Yeah, I meant "I do wonder" being left off - don't know why I was thinking about "Hummingbirds"
I don't know - maybe Your mind and we belong together and its flip were only for a single. But why would Love cut a single? they were never a singles group, I'm assuming it was cut for an album as I reckon they were still under contract to Elektra
Who knows? Who really knows?
Its seems the band wanted to get away from Elektra around da capo
though
Yeah, Holzman was a trouper! I understand he used to ship things into to Arthur when he was in prison
(prison actually turned out well for Arthur. For a while. It kept him clean, and when he was out he was doing well with Love for the long time in a while, rather than just marking time on the west coast, playing with pick up bands struggling to fill an hours set!
thank God I saw him play Forever Changes before he passed. He really did fulfill his potential, at the end
Looking forward to the "lost" Arthur Lee album! don't think theres much that hasn't been heard before on it tho |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 14:24:09
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| You know one thing I'm very curious about is how the band, Arthur, Bryan, John, etc etc originally conceived the record. I mean did they sit down and say ok we have a bunch of songs and the title of our little album is going to be "Forever Chnages" or did the record kind of just "flow" if you get the drift where everything kind of just fell into place without great conscious thinking. The record even though some think it's "far out" works. It works so well that it's called a musical masterpiece today. |
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mikeb
Old Love
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 16:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Yeah, Holzman was a trouper! I understand he used to ship things into to Arthur when he was in prison
That's right, Jac mentioned that when he spoke following the premiere of the Love Story film in London, Arthur had written to him and as he read through he realised that he was asking him to send him things and said he was glad to oblige. Described Arthur as a loveable rogue or words to that effect.
I remember he said, as is well known, that Arthur didn't want to play outside of LA and the immediate area, he recalled that once he had got Arthur to fly out to New York for some promotional work and then discovered that he had soon checked out of the hotel and flown back to LA without telling him. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 19:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
Yeah, I meant "I do wonder" being left off - don't know why I was thinking about "Hummingbirds"
I agree that "I Do Wonder" would have would fit in with the
FC vibes, but it's so hard to imagine a more perfect set. Some things
seem to work out right in the end, no matter what we might want.
As Johnny Beatle wrote, "Life is what happens, while you're busy
making plans..."
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 04:34:55
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That being said though, about the album working really well..
"Hummingbirds" seems to be a song written during da capo
Maybe Arthur wrote lyrics for the track during Forever Changes? The instrumental take of the song seems to have been recorded before Forever Changes though - in June of 1966!!
Jac writes about sending Arthur stuff while he was in prison in the Forever Changing box set btw
I don't think theres a bad track on Changes. I really don't. And Bummer in the Summer.. Christ, the lyrics on that! Great great tune. Great side too
the album seems to have been remastered 3 times LOL  Christ Holzman must LOVE the fact the band cut that album. Totally justified his faith in the band and the hassle of dealing with Arthur  |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 14:41:14
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"..dealing with Arthur"...
heh heh just think what coulda happened down the line if Arthur took that Dale Carnegie course...."How to Win Friends and Influence People"... .. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 16:39:15
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quote:
Originally posted by rocker
"..dealing with Arthur"...
heh heh just think what coulda happened down the line if Arthur took that Dale Carnegie course...."How to Win Friends and Influence People".....
The only way Arthur would have been tempted to read that is if it had been titled: "How To F#@king Win Friends & Screw People"!
 Seriously....Arthur was a sweet guy, but he knew what he wanted and took no bull....Arthur felt no need to "sell" himself and it was "his way or the highway"!!
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 16:53:53
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| Well you know I never dealt directly with his so called wrath or with his friendship. Like Will Rogers, all I know is from the "papers". From what I've seen here he's kind of portrayed as a very unique personality by people. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 17:52:24
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Don't know if anyone knew the real Arthur. I prefer to see him as the likable and straightforward guy he shows from Love Story. I know from those that were lucky enough to meet him, he was a very friendly and open guy and treated his fans with great respect and love.
I've read all kinds of negative stories-- from screwing his band-mates and so on...but I don't think many would trade their days with Arthur for anything...just my thoughts.
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 21:14:50
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Well sometimes I think what do we really know about people at all?
Was he as negative as some portray him? I don't know. All I know is that as I get around I realize is that it takes at least two to tango. I learn that every day at work and in my life! |
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 23:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
quote:
Originally posted by rocker
"..dealing with Arthur"...
heh heh just think what coulda happened down the line if Arthur took that Dale Carnegie course...."How to Win Friends and Influence People".....
The only way Arthur would have been tempted to read that is if it had been titled: "How To F#@king Win Friends & Screw People"!
Seriously....Arthur was a sweet guy, but he knew what he wanted and took no bull....Arthur felt no need to "sell" himself and it was "his way or the highway"!!
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein
You are joking???? Arthur a 'sweet guy'??? I don't think so, I adore his music but as a human being he was, most of the time, not the nicest person to know. Genius, yes, sweet guy? No way |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 05:12:52
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I love that story in the Castle about borrowing money from some poor hapless soul and he goes in to give him a check
and Arthurs taking a gun out of his pocket and putting it on the table (!)
Yeah, he seems to have screwed everyone he came into contact, musically. Or on labels (Distortions, etc)
Jail seems to have served him well. It certainly helped his career. Even really bad live Love albums out on Viper sold! |
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ThomasGalasso
Old Love
USA
712 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 20:37:51
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But the funny thing is, with all that. Jail, Arthur pissing people off, maybe even beating some ass here and there. You all come back for more. As does everyone else because clearly he was a visionary and a tortured soul.
The guy obviously had some personal magic that touched everyone otherwise there wouldn't be so many adults spending time on this page arguing, laughing, agreeing, and otherwise.
Different times man, plus drugs, paranoia and oh how crazy it must have been to be black in those days living where he lived and doing what he was doing. An explosive mix of life and experience is what it all adds up to.
I never met the man, and therefore never experienced the venomous side of Mr. Lee. He was a seriously complex individual that we will never figure out. That same mind wrote those songs we love so much and also added to this compelling story that is Love.
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 20:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by ThomasGalasso
But the funny thing is, with all that. Jail, Arthur pissing people off, maybe even beating some ass here and there. You all come back for more. As does everyone else because clearly he was a visionary and a tortured soul.
The guy obviously had some personal magic that touched everyone otherwise there wouldn't be so many adults spending time on this page arguing, laughing, agreeing, and otherwise.
Different times man, plus drugs, paranoia and oh how crazy it must have been to be black in those days living where he lived and doing what he was doing. An explosive mix of life and experience is what it all adds up to.
I never met the man, and therefore never experienced the venomous side of Mr. Lee. He was a seriously complex individual that we will never figure out. That same mind wrote those songs we love so much and also added to this compelling story that is Love.
I don't see there's any connection with admitting that Arthur Lee could be a total ba*tard at times (quite a lot of times!!) yet still admiring his genius as a musician/songwriter. Do we have to even try and figure him out? We have the music that is what is important.
As I am sure we all know, since the dawn of time, artists, in all fields, have produced great work whilst being, in many cases, awful human beings. There's no contradiction in loving the music, not the man. |
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Re Forever Changes as a DOUBLE ALBUM?
