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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2009 : 03:48:06
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This is new to me
Echols saying that FChanges was originally a DOUBLE ALBUM?! |
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TJSAbass
Fourth Love
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 04:00:57
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| Wow! That makes ya stop and think. Given that very few bands have made double albums that were consistently good all the way through, I am tending to think it was a good decision to make it a single album. What of the other songs though? Were they written yet? Or would they have been written to fill out the 4 sides? Interesting! |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 04:10:41
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Ya, I want to know too...double album in concept ,,,,or that there were fully fleshed out tracks!
Enough to fill four sides. Why is this the first we've heard of this?!! You would think someone, Bryan, Arthur, Michael....someone ----might have mentioned this before??
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
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ZFarrar
Fourth Love
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 06:14:44
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| I heard the interview and tend to believe it. After all Johnny was the lead guitarist. I never bought the concept that somehow, someway Love went back in the studio a few months after FC to record "Your Mind/Laughing Stock" as a double sided single. |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 14:27:28
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| Whoa...then some decisions were made back when...to be a fly on the wall!... |
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ThomasGalasso
Old Love
USA
712 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 19:23:59
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| One would have to assume if Forever Changes was indeed slated to be a double album, some of those tracks would later surface on Four Sail and Out Here. That is more than likely the rest of FC and even Gethsemane to some extent. There was once a fued between Arthur and Bryan over who wrote some songs from Out Here...... |
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 19:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Ya, I want to know too...double album in concept ,,,,or that there were fully fleshed out tracks!
Enough to fill four sides. Why is this the first we've heard of this?!! You would think someone, Bryan, Arthur, Michael....someone ----might have mentioned this before??
____________________________________________________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein
I suspect you are right that it was only ever a double album as a concept. Yeah, there might have been a few more songs, most bands record more songs than ever end up on the album, but I doubt it was enough of quality to fill a second album. Like you say, if it was an actual, recorded, double album this would have been issued years ago or, at the very least, mentioned. |
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stewart
Old Love
United Kingdom
568 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 00:15:49
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| JE said he was recording gethsemane based on fragments of songs that love were playing about with and for which no demos exist so hes doing it from memory - can he really remember back 40 yrs ago? |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 02:52:20
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More importantly, has he even recorded anything since back then?
Its a little different than when he was with Love and they were recording at Sunset Sound
Considering though, its a miracle that Changes was even finished, with or without the LA Wrecking Crew to pitch in
I guess the drugs didn't help.. is that why they were incapable of playing? Or was it a matter of just not rehearsing than at live shows on the west coast?
Of course the "donut robbers" story was proposterous (I think Kenny did mention in some interview that he had to go into a rehab that was kinda like a spa
Thanks to Mike Barraclough for sending on the Echols interview. Haven't had a chance as I'm reading the new Pink Floyd FAQ book LOL
Then Ian Hunters book, undoubtedly, as I've been wanting to read that for ages
Anyone got the new Sundazed Love vinyl? I might do a runner on Wednesday, see if its for sale at the Love band
gig at Maxwells
Thats cool they're doing a show but I can't imagine too many folk will show up, what with Arthur Lee being dead. A tribute to Love on the part of Baby Lemonade might have gone over better, featuring special guitar Johnny Echols
I still give Gethesemene a matter of years, unless its put out as a download. Would Rhino or Sundazed put out a Love album without the input of Arthur Lee?
When did Echols first start talking up the Gethesemene album? in 2002?
I would like it to come off, but I'm not sure if too many people would pick up on it as it doesn't feature Arthur Lee
A Love album WITHOUT Arthur Lee .. odd that 
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 12:03:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
More importantly, has he even recorded anything since back then?
Its a little different than when he was with Love and they were recording at Sunset Sound
Considering though, its a miracle that Changes was even finished, with or without the LA Wrecking Crew to pitch in
I guess the drugs didn't help.. is that why they were incapable of playing? Or was it a matter of just not rehearsing than at live shows on the west coast?
Of course the "donut robbers" story was proposterous (I think Kenny did mention in some interview that he had to go into a rehab that was kinda like a spa
Thanks to Mike Barraclough for sending on the Echols interview. Haven't had a chance as I'm reading the new Pink Floyd FAQ book LOL
Then Ian Hunters book, undoubtedly, as I've been wanting to read that for ages
Anyone got the new Sundazed Love vinyl? I might do a runner on Wednesday, see if its for sale at the Love band
gig at Maxwells
Thats cool they're doing a show but I can't imagine too many folk will show up, what with Arthur Lee being dead. A tribute to Love on the part of Baby Lemonade might have gone over better, featuring special guitar Johnny Echols
I still give Gethesemene a matter of years, unless its put out as a download. Would Rhino or Sundazed put out a Love album without the input of Arthur Lee?
When did Echols first start talking up the Gethesemene album? in 2002?
I would like it to come off, but I'm not sure if too many people would pick up on it as it doesn't feature Arthur Lee
A Love album WITHOUT Arthur Lee .. odd that
Johnny seems a sensible bloke, I'm pretty sure he knows that recording has changed since the sixties!!
We've already discussed, elsewhere, how good the band are with Johhny so no point going over that again. You aren't interested in seeing them and, in my opinion, that's your loss but up to you.
I am not sure if Johnny is planning on recording 'Gethsemene' as a Love album or as a solo album but I do find it strange that you think a Love album without Arthur is so ridiculous a concept. There are so many bands who have had successful careers after 'key' members left, Pink Floyd (as you are a fan) and Genesis are others that spring to mind.
Whoever said that the band were 'incapable of playing'? Clearly they did play, it's on the record and, like all Love myths and legends, there's no way, I think we'll ever get the full story on that one. |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 14:24:18
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"now way....we'll ever get the full story"...
Being that FC is my favorite, I hope you can be wrong on that. At this point, I think I know some things about its making but at bottom sometimes I think really I don't know much. Would be nice to get inside each recording session and each song and how they built the record. It deserves it. Too bad a tape wasn't running 24/7 when they did the reord. |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 19:04:05
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to be honest, I don't think we know much about the recording of Changes at all
that Bryan and Arthur went over the album on acoustics before it going down, check
but why the strings? was that Holzman's thought?
He apparently sequenced the album, which was news to me!
were the songs old at the time? why was Hummingbirds left off? was that to be on the double album, or Gethesemene?
what Bryan songs did they go over and not decide to do? were any other band members rehearsing their own material, like Echols, for the double album, then decided to keep it for the next (Gethsemene?) which never panned out
and what does the title The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This
even mean?
You just wish Echols would talk about the songs more, as he was close to Arthur. And for a long time the last thing Arthur wanted to talk about was Forever Changes, even saying the Four Sail band dissed it. Yeah right!
it was his best work and he knew it - but he wanted to move on and keep doing music
Must've been a disheartening thought to have done your best work in your early 20s. At least McCartney went on to record RAM after splitting the Beatles!
I'm assuming Echols never recorded anything after recording with Love. I had been hoping he had been doing sessions with Miles or someone. I guess only Tjay went on to something
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 19:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
to be honest, I don't think we know much about the recording of Changes at all
but why the strings? was that Holzman's thought?
He apparently sequenced the album, which was news to me!
Holzman was a genius when it came to knowing what was good...LoVE, DOORS, Tim Buckley...not always commercial successes, but I think he always had the thought to find something unique--a band or artist that had something new to offer. No cookie cutter, MOR stuff. Success was always an issue, but not with a sellout..in my opinion.
Some years ago, I read that about Holzman coming up with the LP track sequence, which says to me he had something more going on than just a good mind for business.
The FC opening track was a stroke of genius, without consideration for Arthur's ego...Bryan's song, not one of Arthur's, would be chosen to draw us all into this inspired master-work!!!
 A very down to earth-good guy, not just a persona on video, as I've been told by those who know Jac.
____________________________________________________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe. --Albert Einstein |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 04/08/2009 19:26:19 |
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scully
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
217 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 21:17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
t
and what does the title The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This
even mean?
ice cream, yum yum...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Humor
Without wanting to incur the wrath of any passing authors :) I did enjoy Holzmann's 'Follow The Music'.
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 22:28:45
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..and while eating the soft stuff we can all ruminate on some of the answers to those questions posed by joe and others.... ...man..how did it come to this state of affairs on one of the greatest records ever made?....
rocker et al..adrift on the sea of Forever Changes! |
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sometimesmylifeissoeerie
Fourth Love
198 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 01:26:01
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According to the booklet that came along with the elektra CD (which seems to have been researched pretty thoroughly), AL wanted to use the strings, and he worked with David Angel on his tunes, singing the lines he wanted, with Angel adding some ideas of his own, and Bryan doing the same with DA.
The greater recording artists did it this way (Judee Sill), and the result was worth it!
Hummingbirds dated from the "7&7 Is" session, so wasn't intended to be on FC, but obviously is the prototype for "Good Humor Man".
The only song recorded that wasn't released was "Wonder People" (I Do Wonder) which was a great song and should've replaced "Bummer in the Summer", the only bad song on the entire LP, IMHO.
I don't think Gethesmane or the double LP were very concrete ideas back then.
Now JE is going to record it- 47 years later?
Give me a break!
I think the story Bruce Botnik related in the booklet was accurate.
The band was so out of it and performing so poorly, he decided to hire some good studio rock players to back AL on his songs and BM on his tunes.
The band was in the studio at the time and were so demoralized by this they started crying.
Ken Forssi is quoted as saying he took over the bass part for Carol Kaye when she couldn't cut it, and the rest of the band pulled it together and got back in the driver's seat.
They must've practiced a lot, because the next recording session was two months later on August 11th, and there was no talk of studio musicians.
"Your Mind and We Belong Together" and "Laughing Stock" were recorded five months later, on January 30, 1968, and not released till June, by which time Love was no more, so I think YMAWBT was meant as a single. |
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Re Forever Changes as a DOUBLE ALBUM?
