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 Love Saga : Hard to Know the Truth !
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ThomasGalasso
Old Love

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  04:11:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

There are so many different tales and stories about Love it is actually hard to know what is true and what is not. I was thinking about this while making my last post.

Here are some of the things I find to contradict the mythos of the band and some of the odd tales of....whatever. A lot of this is inspired from reading Michael Stuart's wonderful yet possibly flawed book.

The biggest question is Gethsemane. Now does this exist in any capacity or not ? Echols claims now that it was always intended to really be a solo project of sorts. I don't believe it. No way he would have a solo effort or a Love effort where he writes the majority of the compositions. No way I can see Arthur going for that, not to mention if it was to have this world music thing going for it then Lee would have jumped all over it. There are reports some of the tracks were laid down and even the Laughing Stock .45 was a part of the aborted album.

I have heard that Bryan MacLean was fired. I have also heard he quit. I believe he quit and had he not quit Arthur would not have fired the rest of the band. My personal belief.

The Barney Hoskyns book where the first thing Hoskyns wants to discuss is about a meeting in a bar in which Lee describes Hendrix as having homosexual tendencies. I don't know if Arthur said it, but I don't believe Hendrix would buy Lee a hooker and then show up to the room and try and come on to Mr. Lee passing on the gal all the while.

-Thomas Galasso

I got lots more but what is your take ?

Tiburon
Third Love

Canada
63 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  04:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an addition to the bag Arthur Lee says from older interviews that he wasn't really into the acoustic sound but that people were influced him to go that route and he really wanted to do a more elctric harder rockin sound like on four sail and out here. that completely contradicts what the deal is now and has been for the last few years i think.
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Phil Brauer
Third Love

90 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  09:21:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I loved the Michael Stuart Ware book, and I imagine most of it is pretty much true...that's just what I feel. As far as the mystical Gethesemane project goes, I hope something of it exists and will someday come to fruition. I got into the Beach Boys real heavy about 3 years ago, and all the talk was about the pinnacle of Brian Wilson's projects...SMILE. An aborted project from the sixties that was supposed to be his answer to the Beatles Sgt Peppers...the project was written off, as was Brian, who was more or less considered to be an acid casualty. Well, Brian pulled it out of his hat about a year or so ago, and it is incredible, and it would have been considered a masterpiece if it had been released in it's proper time. If Gethesemane were released tommorow, (and it was really good)...sure we would all Love it....but the rest of the world?
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The sweet disorder
Fourth Love

United Kingdom
214 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  11:06:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I personally do not beleive that "Gethsemane" was a Love project and there is nothing in the vaults on it. I'm thinking that in the "Your Mind and We/laughing Stock" sessions were the start of a new album and if "Gethsemane" would have been an album most of "Four Sail" would have been on it. I cannot for the life of me see that there is wonderous stuff unreleased or not bootlegged.

I'm sure that Bryan left the band as he felt frustrated because his songs weren't getting on the albums. I do also believe that Elektra rejected Bryan because the songs weren't there. I have said that in an earlier post that I do feel that Bryan influenced Arthur's music enormously during Da Capo and Forever Changes. However, I do feel that Bryan took no influence from Arthur and the music on Ifyoubeleivein and Candy's Waltz, although blessed with some good songs is a touch one-dimensional. The biggest tale I have heard about the band that has been refuted on this board is that the band were strung out on drugs during the Forever Changes sessions. Johnny Echols posted a while ago saying Bryan and Kenny didn't try on the early sessions to try and ensure more of Bryan's songs got on the album. It's my view that Arthur "called their bluff" by getting the Wrecking Crew in. Obviously Johnny was there so I have no reason to doubt his memory.

I quite liked Michael Stuart's book, however, it offers no real insight into Arthur (probably because they didn't associate much outside of the band) Thomas, if you are looking for a interesting take on the Forever Changes album, have you read "Forever Changes" by Andrew Hultkrans?
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ThomasGalasso
Old Love

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  17:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I did read the Andrew Hultkrans book and found myself to be somewhat frustrated, but I did like some of the points. I can definetly see all of the spirtuality he was discussing especially in association with the times. My issue was he went too far away from talking about Love and at times I would even forget what I was reading about.

I believe at the very least Gethsemane was the intention, but I do not believe it was to be an Echols solo project, nor a Love album with virtually all Echols compositions.

I believe MacLean influenced Arthur a lot, and he quit due to frustration. In fact I believe they brought out each other's negative sides. From what I got from Mike through the email Bryan was really no angel either, he just was not AS menacing as Arthur, but nonetheless birds of a feather right ?

I think if Arthur said what he said about Jimi coming on to him, he was just drunk and being....odd. I don't put stock into Arthur always wanting a hard rocking electric sound because he could always do that at any time. I am sure if they wanted they could have done that at any point, and to be honest they did rock hard when they wanted to.

I also do remember the part about Johnny and Ken not really trying on the Forever Changes sessions in order to spoil Bryan's trip if you will. Johnny and Arthur grew up together and are still friends. The only members of Love I can think of that ever really had any negativity to throw at Arthur from the original lineup was Bryan and maybe Michael but only in a realistic and respectful way.

-Thomas Galasso
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ZFarrar
Fourth Love

USA
161 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  19:46:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas, your obsession with Arthur is clear, now you are attempting to reconstruct and revise the actual conversations, motives, rumours, inuendo, etc. that have surrounded this band since the 60's.

You aren't John Tobler or AJ Weberman for that matter,yet you continue to examine every piece of the story, as if you were looking at the Zapruader film. Are you relating these opinions for our edification or for your own peace of mind? It's amusing, but you weren't there, you don't know. Nice try though.

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waxburn
Old Love

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  19:58:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZFarrar

Thomas, your obsession with Arthur is clear, now you are attempting to reconstruct and revise the actual conversations, motives, rumours, inuendo, etc. that have surrounded this band since the 60's.

You aren't John Tobler or AJ Weberman for that matter,yet you continue to examine every piece of the story, as if you were looking at the Zapruader film. Are you relating these opinions for our edification or for your own peace of mind? It's amusing, but you weren't there, you don't know. Nice try though.





He is simply talking about AL and LOVE on a LOVE website. Who should he be posting about, Baby Lemonade?

You were off target about Bryan, don't forget.
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ThomasGalasso
Old Love

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  20:02:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ZFarrar I know my obsession is clear, but I am not trying to reconstruct history or conversations. I know I was not there. I am 24 years old my friend. So I do not see what you are talking about.

I am referring to the book written by Michael Stuart and things I have seen written or posted by people such as Johnny Echols who whether you know it or not is a member of this board.

I guess to put it mildly ZFarrar you should really, really stop being so rude to people here. You know you would not act this way in public so why bring it here ? Things such as "nice try though", that is something that you put out there.

Explaining things to you is a very trying task, it is as if I am dealing with someone who just wants to start chaos for no apparent reason. Read what I wrote again, in fact read it from the top, and think about it. Maybe you should read the Mike Stuart book, and read the Barney Hoskyns book, and then move on to the Hultkrans book and then your opinion will make more sense within the context of what we are talking about.

Let me ask you, what exactly is your trip ? Where are you from and what do you do if I may ask politely ? I am curious, you just seem to always talk about the same things like clockwork, usually negative. You are the guy that was going into chat rooms in the late 1990's and starting fights on message boards etc. it seems like, but again, I would really like to know.

-Thomas Galasso

Let us see if you can manage to respond to me without trying to insult me, or being mean in some sort of cyber way. Give me a nice try.
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ZFarrar
Fourth Love

USA
161 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  03:44:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To Waxburn: I was totally correct about Bryan, funny you should bring that up. But since you aren't creative enough to back up your opinions with anything but a dumb comment & a funny face, I won't waste my time.

Thomas: Bummer, dude. Too much reality for you? I don't need to read from your Arthur Lee library to know the story. Don't play me. One of my best friends first booked Arthur in
the mid 70's in San Diego (he was too stoned to do the show unfortunately). I've met
him any number of times, actually worked on several Rhino Records projects (Love story, FOrever Changes) Funny thing is he was always a nice guy. However I have heard all these stories, do you know how many times Arthur has told that story about Jimi? You have no idea, it's a funny story-but once again you're analyzing it like its the 9/11 video. It's funny when people here besides Johnny Echols,attempt to talk about Bryan, his motivations etc. They don't know squat. My buddy spent 2 months hanging out with the man, it's amusing to hear all this conjecture. You really
don't know how funny you are. You see it as negative, but you read tone in my posts. It's all good, I'm glad you're a fan. As far as taking pleasure in fighting with you, none at all. I
think people have been extremely nice to you, even when you've posted utter gibberish.
That's okay, someday you'll laugh as well. Sometime, if you get a chance (before you star in
the movie Forever Changes, spend some time in Hollywood. Hit the clubs, meet the guys at Rhino Records, look up Jac Holzman. Don't rely only on E-books.
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Phil Brauer
Third Love

90 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  04:53:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I see we traded one jerk-off (HESEESEVERYTHING) for another. What the hell is wrong with you ****-stains who have to come on here, attack others, and tell everyone what a big shot you are. Who cares if you know/have talked to, or booked Arthur Lee?? Most of us are just here to talk about and learn more about a band that we all love dearly. So if someone posts about something you already knew or heard about many times in the past...so what? Guess what, many of us here hadn't heard that story about AL and Jimi...I guess we are not as cool as you are though...so why are you even here???
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waxburn
Old Love

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  05:03:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZFarrar

To Waxburn: I was totally correct about Bryan, funny you should bring that up. But since you aren't creative enough to back up your opinions with anything but a dumb comment & a funny face, I won't waste my time.

Thomas: Bummer, dude. Too much reality for you? I don't need to read from your Arthur Lee library to know the story. Don't play me. One of my best friends first booked Arthur in
the mid 70's in San Diego (he was too stoned to do the show unfortunately). I've met
him any number of times, actually worked on several Rhino Records projects (Love story, FOrever Changes) Funny thing is he was always a nice guy. However I have heard all these stories, do you know how many times Arthur has told that story about Jimi? You have no idea, it's a funny story-but once again you're analyzing it like its the 9/11 video. It's funny when people here besides Johnny Echols,attempt to talk about Bryan, his motivations etc. They don't know squat. My buddy spent 2 months hanging out with the man, it's amusing to hear all this conjecture. You really
don't know how funny you are. You see it as negative, but you read tone in my posts. It's all good, I'm glad you're a fan. As far as taking pleasure in fighting with you, none at all. I
think people have been extremely nice to you, even when you've posted utter gibberish.
That's okay, someday you'll laugh as well. Sometime, if you get a chance (before you star in
the movie Forever Changes, spend some time in Hollywood. Hit the clubs, meet the guys at Rhino Records, look up Jac Holzman. Don't rely only on E-books.



You have a lot of "buddies". Very cool.

The story that Bryan went born again christian while working on his solo album is contrary to what is posted on Bryan's website. You can check it out. Bryans mother contributes over there, but she probably didn't consult with you and your buddies.

Look up Jac Holzam? Why don't you tell us what Jac would say? He had his say on Follow the Music, or is that also not accurate?

Maybe its your 'buddies' that have a faulty memory from the bong hits.

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waxburn
Old Love

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  05:08:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Brauer

I see we traded one jerk-off (HESEESEVERYTHING) for another. What the hell is wrong with you ****-stains who have to come on here, attack others, and tell everyone what a big shot you are. Who cares if you know/have talked to, or booked Arthur Lee?? Most of us are just here to talk about and learn more about a band that we all love dearly. So if someone posts about something you already knew or heard about many times in the past...so what? Guess what, many of us here hadn't heard that story about AL and Jimi...I guess we are not as cool as you are though...so why are you even here???




Maybe Torben should assign him his own section on the forum so he
can post there about his buddies that almost booked AL but passed out stoned.

He was also wrong about AL and BL, since BL themselves fired AL, not the other way around.

There seems to be a row of Big Shots waiting in line to post here.
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Merlyn Merlot
Fourth Love

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  08:42:55  Show Profile  Visit Merlyn Merlot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A lot of this reminds me of the Tubes song "I was a Punk Before You Were a Punk"
Now if this section were called" Who Has The Truth Wins"
then all this condescending ego dancing might be cool

Now correct me if I'm wrong
but the Title is "Love Saga: Hard To know The Truth"
So if you are a little bit closer to your version of the truth spill the beans

I always wondered what would happen if we just dug the music
the more layers of the onion you peal the less appealing it may be
Not the bands legacy or the history of the music
but the cult of personality

Is it just me or does it seem at times that the reality busters all the while still cherishing the music
simultaneously project past experiences into the future
As if to say "See I told you so"

every band has at least 2 versions of their truth
1 is what happened to them in real time and
2 what they want you to know

what happened before the innernet and emptV was that
It was more about the mystery of the music

So when The Music's Over Turn off the Lights

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ThomasGalasso
Old Love

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  09:54:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay.

I am not going to acknowledge ZFarrar anymore. I don't see the purpose in even acting like you are here. I don't come here to be a jerk. I want to know as much as possible and I want to keep everyone talking and analyzing this mysterious group that doesn't get enough play in the media.

I never said anything about changing history whatsoever. I simply stated my opinions and let it be known these were merely my himble opinions. Nothing more. I am human. you are not ZFarrar, you are not even a fan of Love in any capacity from what I see. You like to rebel rouse for no reason. As I stated before you were the guy from the late 1990's that jumped on the whole chat room craze. But you were the person that liked to start fights.

For all of your crazy negativity and babble of absolutely nothing of matter, you are the clown. You are the one without purpose. you come here to lash our against no one in particular, and everything you say you would not say to anyone in person at all. You would not talk to Arthur Lee the way you speak of him for fear he would probably hurt your mind and physical being even at the age of 61 is it ? Or 62 ?

My email is eddiebrock90@hotmail.com , and if you want to tell Arthur your feelings I have Greg's contact info and you can speak with him.

I really think you should start your own website all about how you feel about life and your love/hate relationship with Arthur Lee the man who befuddles you but intrigues you enough to stay on this board.
You don't even have anything positive to say about anything or anyone. What would you like to see happen ? Would you like Arthur Lee to give you a passionate kiss and apologize for all he has done to hurt you and your paradigm ? I want you to continue to think of me as the idiot or jerk you think I am. I want you to find me boring while the rest of the board and I continue to keep rolling on with positive talk.

I hope you enjoy reading this for this is the last blog or entry or whatever you like to call it you will receive from me. From here on out you do not even exist. I hope you find what it is you are looking for (as long as it doesn't interefere with my thoughts or my energy.)

Hey ZFarrar. I think you should drink some PMS tea. Call me at 734-846-1273 whenever you like. We can talk man to man, if you like feel free to even visit me before I move to Lost Angeles. You can stay with me and my family in Kalamazoo, MI. I hope you like vegan food because that is what my lady is on right now. I am not too into it, but what can I do...I don't really cook ? Seriously call me if you would like. I have no problems. I am not that bad of a person even if I seem to be one. I am sorry I offended you and I am really still disturbed and upset by your reaction toward m.

-Thomas Galasso
734-846-1273
eddiebrock90@hotmail.com
www.myspace.com/thomasgalasso
PO Box 32967
Detroit, MI 48232

Please fellow members excuse me for my rudeness in taking up this space. I do not want my personal issues taking up time on this website. Torben, I am very sorry and I do not plan to do anymore ranting like this ever again.
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The sweet disorder
Fourth Love

United Kingdom
214 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  10:23:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas

Thanks for posting re my original question about the Forever Changes post and sorry that (yet again) war breaks out from what I can see is an innocent post in answer to my original question to you. I do not feel that history is being reconstructed here. I live in the UK so obviously dont have any personal connections to Arthur, or indeed, any members of the band. Like you, the story fascinates me and it obviously fascinates other people hence the title of the forum "General Discussions about Arthur Lee and Love"

cheers

Ian
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Lizzyb
Fifth Love

United Kingdom
470 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2006 :  11:31:06  Show Profile  Visit Lizzyb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i'm in it for the music - aren't most of us?

the Truth is in the eye of the beholder, and shifts about, always has done

goodbye
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