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GoodHumourMan
Third Love
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2005 : 21:25:03
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I'm winding down the reading of pegasus carousel...in the chapter I just read, the band has just jumped a gig in Miami, heading back to California and they've been joined on board the 727 by American troops on their way to Vietnam. They expect the soldiers to be hard ass, but instead they are sociable.
The book has been nothing like what I expected; how drugs, egos and fights over women destroyed a band that should have been one of the biggest from the 60s. As I have been reading, I keep telling myself, things are going to heat up and also asking myself, why is Michael bothering us with these ridiculous stories. Who cares about shooting that barking dog in the ass, insulting the stage hand who knew all the Love songs and the crazy neighbor who beat up Ray Manzarek.
But then it all hit me, Love didn't self destruct because of the typical things...they destroyed themselves because they were assholes. They put themselves on the pedestal and didn't care who they pissed off. Yes, rock'n'roll is a business, but a rock band has to put that aside when it comes to loyalty to fans. Love, led by Arthur Lee, didn't do that.
Ditching Miami becaues they didn't get top billing after being promised top billing was inexcusable. Was Love legally in the right? Yes. But to the fans who had tickets, who cares? All Love did was turned those fans into Doors' fans.
The episode where Arthur insulted the fan who had a fantasy of playing in Love. That was just plain ****. Then there was a half hour set when they should have played an hour. Then Love wondered why Canned Heat was playing longer than they were paid for.
That gig where they were paid well, but found out under 21s weren't being allowed in and the under 21s were picketing outside: Well, that is a gig Love should have canned. They should have refused in support of their loyal fans just as a group touring South Africa in the old days may have refused to go on in the audiences were segregated.
That lecture from the record company guy about showing up and not being rude to people....The band just didn't get the point.....They just figured the Love talent was enough, why be nice and considerate of fans.
Now, I'm starting to think why Arthur wasn't on the UK tour.
Guys, you have created your own destiny. Don't blame the record companies, radio stations and most important, the fans. You all need to read a good book about Vince Lombardi to understand that success is an end product of hard work, sacrifice and dedication.
It has just been a great book of understanding the importance of having good interpersonal relations and the damage from not having those skills.
DanGerMan
DanGerMan |
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John E
Fifth Love
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 21:38:50
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Hi Dangerman,
You can only be addressing Arthur here, since Baby Lemonade have sacrificed their own careered, worked hard to make this a success, and shown remarkable dedication to both Arthur and the fans. Okay, Johnny's an original Love too, but he's learned from life's experience and is now a great asset to the band.
All the best, John E |
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caryne
Old Love
United Kingdom
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 22:46:51
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Yes, I have to agree with John E, the writer of this post can only bee adressing Arthur not the rest of the current band as they were only children at the time. I agree Arthur has always, sadly, been the agent of his own destruction..over the past few years many of us hoped against hope that he wouldn't do it all again but...well, you know the rest.
Yep, Johnny was there back in the 60s but, after speaking to the man himself several times recently, I have to agree that he is a man who seems totally at peace with himself now after learning from the mistakes of his youth..unlike a certain other person. |
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Fingaz
Third Love
Ireland
53 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 12:23:15
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| Put it down to the folly of youth. These guys were only in their early 20's at the time. Of course they were going to be brash and cocky. |
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Lizzyb
Fifth Love
United Kingdom
470 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 13:33:39
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Positive thought for the present and future:
If good interpersonal skills are the key then that bodes very well for the love band
Keep on shining |
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GoodHumourMan
Third Love
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 14:13:49
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I should have been more clear and precise.......Arthur was about 90 percent to blame...The rest of the Forever Changes era band, about 10 percent to blame.
The bit about the dog and Michael saying how dogs take on the personality of their master...I think that was a metaphor for how the rest of band followed along Arthur's bad traits...And Michael talking about how Kenny should have been looking for other gigs when Arthur wasn't making things happen...well that was another big mistake...Kenny was a great bassist and he shouldn't have put his life in Arthur's hands....a lot of us have learned that mistake the hard way.
Four Sail really is a medicore recording (except for "August,") and that should have told Arthur that Love is a band, not the Arthur Lee Band.
As far as Baby Lemonade...They are Zero percent to blame...they have shown a lot of courage and dedication simply being Arthur's backup band and standing in for Arthur in Arthur's absence.
I was a typical American rock fan who viewed Love as a one-hit wonder who hung around because Arthur was pals with Jimi Hendrix....Then in 1995, I moved to Britain.....In the late 90s, I was shocked for find a Love recording (forever changes) on CD in a British record store...I couldn't believe there was a market for Love stuff at this time...Then I went to see Arthur and Baby Lemonade after taking a chance on the album "comes in colours." I was stunned...Then I bought "Forever Changes," listened to it and wondered how on earth this album is so obscure in America....I consider it my favorite recording, Dark Side of the Moon is second and there is not a close third...
After reading the book, I understand why Love never got that big in America.
Arthur, you just pissed people off.
I'm back in America now and "Forever Changes" remains my favorite CD.
DanGerMan |
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Allan
Old Love
USA
560 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 15:27:07
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If you were a part of the 60's when it was happenning, there was a certain 'brashness / cockiness' feeling that most of us had. We were rebelling against our parents and our society. We didn't just want to go or do the ways of our previous generation, as we felt there was a certain boredom or finality in that life-style. So we grew our hair, dissed the 'big' machine (government and bureaucracy), started wearing 'wild and different' clothes, and starting getting high on alternatives to liquor.
All of the above held true through most of the mid to later 60's. Unfortunately for many, drugs took a heavy toll, and after a while, I think drugs became the 'rebellion' of choice. The ideologies of 'love, peace, anti "the big machine", no war, communal living' kind of disappeared.
So during all of this, we have Arthur Lee and LOVE. Somewhere during the life of the original band, Arthur somehow decided that he would be the leader, or at least felt he was important enough to make the decisions. In the beginning, the rest of the band may have been quietly disagreeing or at the very least, simply shrugged their shoulders, because they were gigging, having a lot of fun living the life, and were way too young and innocent to really understand what was happenning. Arthur then gets the notion that he (firstly) and the band (secondly) should be top billed whenever they played. That all sort of signaled the demise.
Arthur decided he was the leader. Arthur called the shots. I feel the rest of the band finally disagreed with this, and the band broke up. I think Arthur's on the same power trip that he was on 40 years ago...but this is 2005 and the times have certainly changed-but maybe Arthur hasn't.
Allan |
Edited by - Allan on 08/08/2005 15:28:27 |
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GoodHumourMan
Third Love
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 15:33:22
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Some talent people are like Mohammad Ali, brillinat talent augmented by great people skills.
Then you have Mike Tyson
Great talent...but no people skills.
Ali is still the greatest....Tyson threw it all away.
Now where does Arthur fit into this?
I was there in the 60s and I was exactly the kind of guy Love should have been reaching out to and missed connecting....And so I never really even knew they were alive.....On the other hand...I adored the Airplane, the Doors, CCR and CJ Fish...they knew how to market themselves.
As far as drugs...well, I'm alive today for one reason...with all the ups and down in my life, I had the good sense to stay away from that ****...to this day, except for smoking a few doobies, I have never touched anything in my life. I'm 51.
DanGerMan |
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Allan
Old Love
USA
560 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2005 : 15:48:40
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DanGerMan-I'm thinking that it was the media and the record companies that marketed the bands. On TV, I would always be seeing Haight-Ashbury, love-ins, flowers, happy dancing hippies, and the bands that were playing the music of the times. I think the media especially gave most of their 'hippie' coverage to San Francisco. And, I also enjoyed a lot of the music coming out of SF at the time.
But I always felt that the 'real' magic was happenning in LA. Just think about all the LA bands...Buffalo Springfield, The Byrds, LOVE, the Mothers, the Doors, Spirit, Canned Heat, the Sons of Adam, Clear Light, the Seeds,-so many more.
I was listening to LOVE back then. Arthur's reputation went all the way back to Philly, where Arthur and Sly Stone had the same rap...would they show up at their gigs? Kind of a negative connotation to that 
quote:
As far as drugs...well, I'm alive today for one reason...with all the ups and down in my life, I had the good sense to stay away from that ****...to this day, except for smoking a few doobies, I have never touched anything in my life. I'm 51.
I applaud your convictions. Wish I could say the same, but I caved. Many of us here have gone up and down that mountain.
Allan |
Edited by - Allan on 08/08/2005 15:56:06 |
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GoodHumourMan
Third Love
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 14:08:30
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The Manson murders and Altamont are two tragedies remembered for bringing the whole 60s things to an end....for me, it was the drug overdose deaths of Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin...That should have been a hint to everybody, and certainly was to me, that crap kills.
DanGerMan |
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philo
First Love
6 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2005 : 07:07:08
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Hey, wasn't it people like Johnny and Kenny who were the ****ed-up ones. What happened to that story about them robbing doughnut shops. Oh, and are there any archived L.A. Times type articles on that that anyone here knows about. It has always sounded too me like Arthur's worked with some people who were pretty ****ed up themselves.
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ladylove
Fifth Love
276 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2005 : 07:34:47
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| What difference does any of that make now? They were all f***ed up back then. What good would it do to drag up OLD DIRT whether it's proven or not? What matters is what's happening in the present moment. Obviously all concerned are doing what they think is best. |
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philo
First Love
6 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2005 : 10:58:32
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| Oh, and is Tjay really dead? Anyone know what happened there? THE POINT IS (ala the Johnny and Kenny thing) how do we know it's Arthur who's in the wrong? Not that Johnny's wrong, or whatever, although just a question, WHERE IN THE HELL HAS HE BEEN ALL THESE YEARS? He claims he has worked with Miles Davis. Any more INFO? In the liner notes to Love Story (1995), his whereabouts are unknown. Snoopy certainly seemed to consider him a bad influence in the Zigzag interview. Very strange the whole Love Story. A while ago there was something here about Frank Fayad's daughter wanting to know where he is, George Suranovich is SUPPOSEDLY dead, I mean: WHAT A MYSTERIOUS BUNCH!!!!! I mean, bless them all. I personally consider Bryan MacLean's one of the most untimely middle-aged rock deaths, along with George Harrison, Carl Wilson and now Jim Capaldi. Not necessarily people you'd have expected to die so soon. And Bryan and Kenny dying while Arthur was in jail .... I mean, just destroying a chance for old friends to make up. And I thought I'd get to see Johnny and Arthur together. Oh well! |
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mikeb
Old Love
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2005 : 12:10:05
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Don't know why you query whether George Suranovich is dead, there a good obituary of him, with much mention of his work with Arthur at
http://members.aol.com/mkolesar/suranovich.htm
If you check Pegasus Carousel Page 199 Kenny denies Arthur's story about the supposed donut stand robberies. |
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GoodHumourMan
Third Love
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2005 : 18:27:27
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it is well implied that Arthur was making up a lot of poppycock (that's yiddish for Bull****) when he said Johnny and Kenny had taken their rented instruments and sold them to a pawn shop....I have never seen verification of the doughnut shop robbies, arrests and imprisonment...if they happened, they were punished and that should be the end of it.
David Crosby spent time in prison and nobody gives a hoot today.
DanGerMan |
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pegasus carousel and the fall of Love
