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markk
Old Love
USA
803 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2016 : 18:48:51
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US/Cuban relations have been void for decades of isolation and economic sanctions. So what do we do now. Send in the MARINES.
Hell no, we send in our Pres. for some cozy chit chat and dancing.
Just in case thst don't work, we send in the STONES. Oh the power of Rock n Roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUuR880EdRY |
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DaveyTee
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2016 : 13:20:05
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I wasn't aware that it was the USA that sent in the Stones! Whatever, it's good to see that at last the USA appears to be taking a more reasonable attitude in its relations (or non-relations) with Cuba.
DT
Scottish, not British. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2016 : 16:08:00
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyTee
I wasn't aware that it was the USA that sent in the Stones! Whatever, it's good to see that at last the USA appears to be taking a more reasonable attitude in its relations (or non-relations) with Cuba.
DT
Scottish, not British.
Totally agree, dt. We have relations with China. Cuba is far less of a threat and China has a much worse human rights record. Come on, are we still gonna punish Cuba for taking over all those off-shore posh mob-run gambling casinos in the 50's. I understand they replaced one corrupt government with a different kind of dictatorship, but get over it. Why are we still punishing the poor people of Cuba with these ridiculous sanctions and embargoes? Normalize relations, people.
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. Š GENE CLARK
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SignedRW
Fifth Love
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2016 : 01:58:38
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| Far be it for me to knee jerk defend many of the so often very wrong decisions the U.S. govenment has made during my lifetime,(still rather be, as Steve Miller so eloquently put it, "Living in the USA" though.) I don't think that the U.S.A.'s problems with Cuba (blockade, no diplomatic relations, etc.) are as much economics or Capitalism vs. Communism as they are about events from the fall of 1962. I was in elementary school, and had a paper route. For about two weeks straight, while folding papers pre-delivery, the headlines screamed daily about being closer than at any previous time to all out nuclear war. Those Russian-provided ballistic missiles, armed as I recall, with warheads that were sixty times more powerful than the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, were positioned just ninety miles from Florida. That's about from Newcastle to Edinburgh, if, say for instance, Great Britain suddenly had a bone to pick with Scotland. As a sixth grade kid with a paper route, I lost some sleep during that time. Possibly a few other US citizens did as well. Anybody? I'll never argue that the Bay of Pigs fiasco was anything other than sheer idiocy, or that the fifty year-long blockade might perhaps be pushing things more than a bit, but I've never been able to manage much in the way of warm and fuzzy feelings toward the government of a country that was so quick to threaten my own in so serious a way, not really that many years ago. Just sayin'.... |
Edited by - SignedRW on 07/04/2016 02:00:07 |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2016 : 14:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Signed RW
Far be it for me to knee jerk defend many of the so often very wrong decisions the U.S. govenment has made during my lifetime,(still rather be, as Steve Miller so eloquently put it, "Living in the USA" though.) I don't think that the U.S.A.'s problems with Cuba (blockade, no diplomatic relations, etc.) are as much economics or Capitalism vs. Communism as they are about events from the fall of 1962. I was in elementary school, and had a paper route. For about two weeks straight, while folding papers pre-delivery, the headlines screamed daily about being closer than at any previous time to all out nuclear war. Those Russian-provided ballistic missiles, armed as I recall, with warheads that were sixty times more powerful than the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, were positioned just ninety miles from Florida. That's about from Newcastle to Edinburgh, if, say for instance, Great Britain suddenly had a bone to pick with Scotland. As a sixth grade kid with a paper route, I lost some sleep during that time. Possibly a few other US citizens did as well. Anybody? I'll never argue that the Bay of Pigs fiasco was anything other than sheer idiocy, or that the fifty year-long blockade might perhaps be pushing things more than a bit, but I've never been able to manage much in the way of warm and fuzzy feelings toward the government of a country that was so quick to threaten my own in so serious a way, not really that many years ago. Just sayin'....
Yes...remember the times very well. And yes scary for us grade schoolers. But Russia was the enabler and Cuba the puppet. We seem to have somehow forgiven Russia (USSR then), a country that seems almost more of a threat now, more than ever. Cuba's just a memory of childhood nightmares. If we want to try to get along with Cuba as we do China and Russia (uncomfortable bedfellows, as it is), give Cuba at least a few economic incentives to reform a bit. We need to quit pretending that Cuba is NOT just a hop and small boat ride away. (after all we do maintain a legal loophole for detaining bad people there, a few may be unjustly detained but we'll never know---how is it we have a military base on our so-called "enemy's" homeland anyway? A weird relationship for sure. Imagine Cuba occupying a military base for over 50 years, in Florida, somewhere south of Miami...just saying.)
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. Š GENE CLARK |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 07/04/2016 14:27:39 |
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DaveyTee
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2016 : 16:00:51
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Although at the time I lived in genuine fear of imminent annihilation, I remember rather sympathising with the USSR's position. Its client state, Cuba, was itself living in fear of imminent invasion by the USA. In 1960 $13.1 million had been allocated to the CIA by the Eisenhower government to overthrow fidel Castro. The CIA sponsored Bay of Pigs fiasco was the result, and even after that the CIA, and therefore the USA, remained intent on overthrowing Castro. Meanwhile, while I note and fully accept Signed RW's statement that the Russian missiles were to be sited on America's doorstep, it should not be forgotten that at the time the USA had Thor missiles in the UK and first-strike Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey (the latter on Russia's border) all within striking range of Moscow. Indeed,in February 1961, Senator Albert Gore Sr. told Secretary of State Dean Rusk in a closed session of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the Jupiters were a “provocation”, adding, “I wonder what our attitude would be if the Soviets deployed nuclear-armed missiles to Cuba". It is on record that Krushchev believed that sending missiles to Cuba was no more than giving Americans "a taste of their own medicine".
Moreover, even if the Soviet missiles were sited in Cuba, it was recognised by the US military that they did not have any great military significance - Kennedy's reaction was a political one, not a military one. Frankly, so that he and his administration did not appear to be weak, he was prepared to plunge the world into nuclear war.
Happily, negotiation in the end proved successful - Krushchev was all too aware of the military superiority of the USA - and the Soviet missiles were removed, while the USA guaranteed that there would be no invasion of Cuba. What was kept from the American public at the time (so that JFK did not appear to be weak) was that it was also agreed that the USA's missiles in Italy and Turkey would also be removed and that duly happened. So, LK, I'm not quite sure what forgiveness Russia requires as it does seem to me that taking all the circumstances into account the USA was probably much more blameworthy than the USSR. But there again, I'm just an old leftie living in socialist Britain!
DT
Scottish, not British. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2016 : 20:02:22
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I didn't mean to imply 'forgiveness"--god knows America is the first and only to actually use those horrific bombs.
...I'm of a mind that, WTF, why can't we all just get along. Bay Of Pigs was about as embarrassing of an event as I can imagine...the US got caught. And then the US deserted the "insurgents" in Cuba who were duped into participating.
All of the political posturing and BS was, and is, an embarrassment to the human race. And all the machinations and double dealing, arms sold to dictatorships only to have them turned back on the sellers...what a joke. A sad tragic horrific joke that never had to happen, yet still does and is.
So anyway, I do enjoy hearing what the rest if the world thought back in the day and today, DT. We in America, of course, got only very biased news reports back in the day (still do). But we freaks and hippies had heads on our shoulders, still do-- we won't get fooled again.
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. Š GENE CLARK
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markk
Old Love
USA
803 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2016 : 21:49:26
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You know I wrote this topic under the General Music Category because my point was the true Power of Rock n Roll to unite cultures. I had no intentions of dragging in ideologies, politics , past sins, etc.
But that is what this turned into.
For the record the Rolling Stones were brought to Cuba by the Fundashon Bon Intenshon and AEG's Concerts West and Musica Punto Zero. I really don't know what that represents.
And DT I do know that we are light years apart on US Policy, as I support and love my country, and would never ever agree with your statement that the US is more blameworthy than the Soviets.
I do detect an anti USA sentiment by your remarks. I'll stop here and get back to music.
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2016 : 12:23:23
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Excellent idea, my friend. Sorry about the politics...I usually shy away myself, but got a bit into it!
Cheers!
But it was fun to know the Stones performed two (free?) concerts in Cuba. I imagine the crowds went wild!
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. Š GENE CLARK
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Cuba
