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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2012 : 14:12:58
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| Just read about about Neil Young's comment that he thinks that listeners to ripped cd's and mp3's only get about 5% of what he does in the studio. Lousy sound quality for him. Instead, he'd like a 30 min download for a song to get the real better sound. And he thinks some 'rich guy' could develop the new sound format! Now we know why vinyl keeps living, eh??? |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 18:13:52
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Right rocker! Here is a full writeup.
Neil Young Wants Digital Music to Die
Musician Neil Young offered a vigorous defense of record companies, followed by an equally vigorous defense of piracy, and laid out a rough sketch of new ways to distribute music in the digital age. The famously contrarian Mr. Young laid out his arguments in an onstage interview at The Wall Street Journal's D: Dive Into Media conference. The core of his case was that the sound quality of today's digital music files is so low that it undermines the artistic intent of musicians like Mr. Young. "What everybody gets is five percent of what we originally make in the studio," Mr. Young said, referring to the way audio signals are compressed when they're sold by online stores like Apple Inc.' s iTunes and when they're ripped from CD onto consumers' hard drives. "We can't control the back-end of the donkey," he said, using the colorful metaphor to argue that musicians and record companies can't control how consumers listen to music. He added that those parties have an obligation to give consumers the option of buying their music in a high-quality audio format. The sound quality of CDs, he said, is little better than downloads, arguing that vinyl records offered the richest playback experience. "This is the 21st century," he said. [1] You don't have to be an audio snob to know that the format is garbage and compresses the sound you hear with blurring effect. While on D: Dive Into Media, Young complained that MP3 files only give listeners about five percent of the total sound; Apple's format, he said, was hardly a step-up, only offering listeners "10.3 percent." He expressed his hope that "some rich guy" will still come along and let fans hear all of the sound contained in a file. "Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music, his legacy was tremendous," Young also said, "But when he went home, he listened to vinyl." He feels that Jobs could have gotten listeners to his sound-quality utopia had his life not been cut short in October of last year. Young touched on piracy as well, saying he's not too concerned with it affecting artists' distribution. Actually, he's more concerned that pirated music is generally of such a low quality. Regarding this, he said, "It doesn't affect me because I look at the internet as the new radio. [2] "Steve Jobs a pioneer of digital music, and his legacy is tremendous," Young said. "But when he went home, he listened to vinyl. Youve got to believe that if hed lived long enough, he would have done what Im trying to do." The musician also decried the lessened sound quality of MP3s and other digital media formats, while noting their added convenience. "Its not that digital is bad or inferior, its that the way its being used isnt doing justice to the art. The convenience of the digital age has forced people to choose between quality and convenience, but they shouldnt have to make that choice," he explained. Surprisingly, Young revealed that he has no apprehension about illegal fire-sharing, currently a hot-button issue in the wake of Megauploads closure. "Piracy is the new radio," he said. "Thats how music gets around." [3]
"Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music. His legacy is tremendous," Young said. "But when he went home, he listened to vinyl (albums)." Young told the "D: Dive Into Media" conference Tuesday that he spoke with Jobs about creating a format that has 20 times the fidelity of files in the most current digital formats, including MP3. Such a format, he said, would contain 100 per cent of the data of music as it is created in a studio, as opposed to 5 per cent in compressed formats including Apple's AAC. Each song would be huge, and a new storage and playback device might only hold 30 albums. Each song would take about 30 minutes to download, which is fine if you leave your device on overnight, he said. [4] Neil Young wants a convenient digital device to play music like an iPod but with higher-quality sound than consumers hear now with digitally compressed files. The rock legend whose 'Heart of Gold', 'Old Man' and many others are still top-sellers on iTunes said he had discussed the idea with late Apple CEO Steve Jobs, and that he and Jobs were working on the issue before he died. Although Jobs was "a pioneer in digital music and his legacy is tremendous, when he went home he listened to vinyl," Young said on Tuesday at a conference sponsored by the Wall Street Journal's All Things Digital blog. "You've got to believe if he lived, he would have done what I'm trying to do," Young added. Consumers hear just a fraction of what musicians create in the studio but deserve 100 percent, he added." [5] The solution is hardware that can play audio files that preserve more of the data present in the original recordings according to Young. He isn't making that solution though. He's leaving the heavy lifting to "some rich guy" like Steve Jobs. Speaking of Jobs, Young says that he was a "pioneer of digital music, and his legacy is tremendous." He says that Jobs listened to vinyl at home after a day's work. If Jobs were to live long enough as Young has, he's sure that Jobs would have found a solution. "What I like about record companies is that they present and nurture artists. That doesn't exist on iTunes, it doesn't exist on Amazon. That's what a record company does, and that's why I like my record company. People look at record companies like they're obsolete, but there's a lot of soul in there -- a lot of people who care about music, and that's very important." He then said that artists that complain about record companies should go it alone and become indie artists. [6] The back end is the devices we're using to listening to audio, and Young hopes that we'll get better devices than what's currently available. On Beats Audio, he says "I think they make it look better, and I think they make it have more bass." He hopes that "some rich guy" will solve the problem of creating and distributing "100 percent" of the sound in music. Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music, his legacy was tremendous. When he went home, he listened to vinyl. Young is calling for a new digital ecosystem of high quality music files and he believes that Jobs would have gotten there had he lived long enough. It doesn't affect me because I look at the internet as the new radio. [7] New York, Jan 31 (TheWrap.com) - Neil Young said Tuesday that he is picking up where Steve Jobs left off, working on a device that can offer digital music without sacrificing quality as iTunes, Amazon and others have done. "Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music, but when he went home he listened to vinyl," Young told Peter Kafka and Walt Mossberg at AllThingsD's Dive Into Media Conference. "I have to believe if he lived long enough he would have tried to do what I'm trying to do." LAGUNA NIGUEL, Calif. "Steve Jobs was a digital pioneer, but when he went home, he listened to vinyl." This is not popular mythology. This is not rumor. This is legendary recording artist Neil Young, sharing his thoughts on the state of digital music at the D: Dive Into Media conference on Tuesday, fiercely arguing his point: Quality needs to return to the music industry. [9]
Neil Young shocked the D:Dive Into Media conference in Dana Point, Calif., on Tuesday with the news that Steve Jobs didn't listen to digital music around the house. The iconic musician and sound-fidelity fanatic told interviewers that the late Podfather was a pioneer of digital music whose legacy was tremendous, "but when he went home, he listened to vinyl." [10]
During an interview at the D: Dive into Media conference Neil Young claimed that Jobs, despite creating the iPod for digital music, preferred to listen to vinyl records at home. [11]
Apple consulted with the influential musician, along with many others in the music industry, for a project to develop electronics and distribution channels for high-definition music, Young said in an onstage interview at News Corp.' s D: Dive Into Media conference Tuesday. CNN first reported a year ago that Apple, along with other digital music retailers, were talking with executives in the record industry about selling high-fidelity tracks in iTunes and retooling iPods to be compatible with them. Most music downloads are currently sold in either the MP3 or AAC formats, both of which compress sound in order to produce smaller files. [12] At the Dive Into Media conference today, Neil Young spoke on music piracy and music quality. He detailed his solution to audio quality and his relationship with Steve Jobs. Speaking first on the MP3 format, Young said that digital formats are convenient, but they sound lousy. He said that his goal is to "rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years." He blames the digital age for the degradation of music quality. [6] Legendary rocker Neil Young is apparently making the leap from making music to building a digital music device and it's great to hear that his main focus isn't on controlling access to content and download speeds but rather on quality. Young's vision of a device that delivers music the way it's supposed to sound is admirable and what is equally impressive is his claim that he is picking up where Apple founder Steve Jobs left off. You might remember that it wasn't that long ago Young was more of an Apple basher than a fan but he has told All Things Digital that he was working with Jobs on a project and while Apple's late boss revolutionised music on the net with the iPod, he was still a vinyl man at heart. Now, making Young's dream device isn't going to be a walk in the park because giving users studio quality audio will mean higher prices for them and require hardware manufacturers to make adjustments. [13] Neil Young, who a few years back famously described Apple as the "Fisher-Price" of sound quality, is giving his "I hate digital music" can another kick, claiming that even the late Steve Jobs listened to vinyl rather than his own company's inventions. [14]
Former Apple boss Steve Jobs, who was credited with delivering the iPod and the Apple digital music store, preferred listening to vinyl records according to musician Neil Young. [11] DANA POINT, California (AP) - Legendary rocker Neil Young took his campaign for higher-fidelity digital sound to the stage of a technology conference on Tuesday, saying a giant of the industry was on his side: the late Steve Jobs. Young said the Apple co-founder was such a fan of music that he didn't use his iPod and its digitally compressed files at home. He used a physical format well-known to have better sound. [15] Summary Box: Neil Young says Jobs a vinyl fan Associated Press THE REVELATION: The late Steve Jobs didn't use his iPod and its digitally compressed files at home. He used vinyl records, a physical format well-known to have better sound. [16]
"Steve Jobs as a pioneer of digital music, and his legacy is tremendous," Young said. "But when he went home, he listened to vinyl. You've got to believe that if he'd lived long enough, he would have done what I'm trying to do." A topic of conversation during today's interview: The recording industry, and whether the record label has outlived its usefulness. [17] "While you're sleeping, your device is working for you." In regards to how and why he came to speak of Jobs for this device, he noted that he'd been speaking with Jobs about the project for some time now, but that his death shut down development of the project pretty much completely. "Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music, but when he went home he listened to vinyl. I have to believe if he lived long enough he would have tried to do what I'm trying to do." Young spoke also about Piracy and the state of the record company, saying that he liked his own company, but that the industry that exists today might be going away sooner than later. [18]
"Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music, and his legacy is tremendous," Young said. "But when he went home, he listened to vinyl. You've gotta believe that if he'd lived long enough, he would have eventually done what I'm trying to do." [19]
We were working on it," Young said. "You've got to believe if he lived long enough he would eventually try to do what I'm trying to do." Young's opinion of Jobs was confirmed by interviewer Walt Mossberg, a journalist with News Corp.' s All Things D website, which has hosted Jobs at its conferences before. Mossberg said Jobs in the past expressed surprise that "people traded quality, to the extent they had, for convenience or price." Young, a 66-year-old singer and songwriter, was full of other surprising opinions, including his defence of recording labels such as his own Reprise Records, a unit of Warner Music Group Corp., as being a nurturer of artists, even as he said recording companies had botched the transition to digital music. [4] Young's going to save the world from over-compressed sound, however: as long as you don't mind a 30 minute download, he says, the device he's wants to work on will obtain music at the "highest possible" resolution. While decrying the digital world for reducing the quality of music, the ageing legend added his voice to the list of musicians with something nice to say about piracy: "Piracy is the new radio; it's how music gets around", he told the conference. Where that leaves record labels, Young doesn't know, but he stated a hope that they could "hang around" to "keep encouraging artists to grow. That doesn't exist on iTunes. That doesn't exist on Amazon." With nobody currently pursuing higher-quality digital audio downloads, Young told the audience he hopes some "rich guy" will pick up the ball. [14] "We have five percent of what we had in 1978." Mr. Young argued for the creation of a high-resolution audio format, which he said would require 30 minutes per song to download; music playback devices built around his proposed format would be able to store about 30 albums' worth of music. Asked who he thinks will create such a device, Mr. Young answered: "Some rich guy." He proposed that fans should stage a grassroots movement to demand such a high-quality audio format. "Occupy audio!" he urged. Mr. Young moved from his pitch for high-quality audio to his defense of both record companies and piracy. "What I like about record companies is that they nurture an artist," he said. Acknowledging the sluggishness of those companies' response to the digital age, Mr. Young said: "The fact that the record companies have made some unbelievably bad business choices, that's because they're music people, they're record people. They're living in another world from Silicon Valley. [1] "I look at Internet as the new radio and radio as gone," Young said. "Piracy is the new radio; it's how music gets around." What does that mean for record companies? Young hopes they hang around. "I like Warner Bros. I like my record company," he told Kafka and Mossberg, the latter of whom asked what record companies can really do for someone of his stature. "It's not what's for me but for other musicians," Young said. "What I like about record companies is they nurture an artist, they keep encouraging artists to grow. That doesn't exist on iTunes. That doesn't exist on Amazon." Young also acknowledged that the record companies make bad business decisions because they are music people who live "in another world from Silicon Valley." 
Young contended it hasn't. "What I like about record companies is that they present and nurture artists," he said. "That doesn't exist on iTunes, it doesn't exist on Amazon. That's what a record company does, and that's why I like my record company. People look at record companies like they're obsolete, but there's a lot of soul in there a lot of people who care about music, and that's very important." Said Young, "Those artists should go by themselves. They have a choice of what they can do. [17]
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Apple's co-founder would have allegedly been working on higher quality devices, not just formats like Apple Lossless, to improve audio quality said Young. Electronista said that the artist suggested that even a format like Apple Lossless to him still only had about 10 percent of the original quality. Listeners had been pushed into choosing "between quality and convenience," a decision they didn't have to make, he argued in a revisit of earlier views. MacNN staff have questioned Young's claims saying that Jobs helped design the iPod based on his own feedback, and while a fan of classic 1960s rock, he typically saw his devices as advancing music rather than taking it a step back. [11] Before Jobs passed, Young was working with Apple to do so. Young said he had spoken with Jobs about high quality music, and working on a way to get it out to the masses. Young says he and Jobs were working on new hardware capable of storing the high-quality audio. [9] Jobs had wanted to improve the quality of music available on iTunes, but Apple has not made any overtures to that affect since Jobs death, Young said during an interview at News Corp.s D: Dive into Media conference Jan. 31. [20] 'Steve Jobs was a pioneer of digital music. His legacy is tremendous,' Young said. Speaking at the D: Dive Into Media conference in Southern California, Young said he had spoken to Jobs about creating a format that allowed the music to stay truer to its original form - rather than being compressed. [21] Speaking at the D: Dive Into Media conference, Young claimed that modern digital music formats are so highly compressed that 95 percent of the audio content is thrown away. (This is a highly debatable claim, but suffice it to say that Young isn't happy that most music today is sold in a lossy, relatively low-bit-rate format.) [19]
For years, the musician has been obsessed with improving the way modern music sounds, sonically speaking. In an interview with Walt Mossberg and Peter Kafka at our D: Dive Into Media conference, Young, the perennial music purist, said that while modern music formats like MP3 are convenient, they sound lousy. [17]
"My goal is to try and rescue the art form that Ive been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said during a panel discussion at this weeks D: Dive Into Media conference in Southern California. "We live in the digital age and, unfortunately, its degrading our music, not improving it." [3] "My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said. "We live in the digital age and, unfortunately, it's degrading our music, not improving it." While modern digital encoding schemes might sound clear on our iPods and smartphones, they only feature a small percentage of the musical data present in a master recording, and Young is on a crusade to correct that. "It's not that digital is bad or inferior, it's that the way it's being used isn't doing justice to the art," Young said. [17] "My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said. "We live in the digital age, and unfortunately it's degrading our music, not improving." Invoking Jobs in his point hits home. [9]
Young, who spoke forcefully backstage on the subject of MP3 files at last year's Juno Awards in Toronto, is on a mission to make digital music more listenable. "My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practising for the past 50 years," said Young, who believes ear buds are not for him. "We live in the digital age, and, unfortunately, it's degrading our music, not improving it." [10]
Neil Young is on a quest to improve upon the MP3 file that dominates digital music. Young isn't opposed to the fact music is going digital, but he says the sound of today's files isn't good enough, with audio quality at just 5 percent of traditional recordings. [22] The Cupertino, California-based company has released a limited number of albums with higher-quality audio, including recordings by the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Wilco. Jobs, who died Oct. 5, listened to records even though he pioneered the sale of digital music, Young said. [23] Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Neil Young says that he talked to former Apple CEO Steve Jobs about offering higher-quality digital music downloads, but that since Jobs’s death, discussion with Apple on the matter has ceased. [19] One of the most famous musicians of all time, Neil Young, spoke this week with Peter Kafka and Walt Mossberg of AllThingsD about the future of digital music, and how he'd be continuing Steve Jobs legacy in pioneering for it. [18]
Musician Neil Young said he worked with Steve Jobs on a high-fidelity music service before Apple (AAPL) Inc. shelved the project. [23] Laguna Niguel, California (CNN) -- Apple's ambition to improve the fidelity of music downloads has diminished since the death of founder Steve Jobs, according to singer-songwriter Neil Young. [12]
Mr. Young then made the case that unpaid digital downloads are now the most effective tool for promoting music. "Piracy is the new radio," he said. "That's how music gets around. That's the real world for kids." He said that he and Steve Jobs had discussed such a possibility, but that since Mr. Jobs's death last year, "not much" had happened with the talks. [1]
Young doesn't have a company to plug or a solution to the problem. He turned to the largely well-heeled audience at the conference as said he needed "a rich guy, someone out there" to lead the charge for better music quality. He did say he had been talking to one particular rich guy: Steve Jobs. [19] As somebody once noted, the only way to get true, distortionless recording is to sit in the conductor's lap. Don't you mean Steve jobs like to listen to vinyl and not mp3 quality on his iPod from the iTunes store. Neil Young is awesome, but his math is wrong. [21] Neil Young told a conference in Dana Point that Steve Jobs liked good, old fashioned records. [24]
THE SOURCE: Legendary rocker Neil Young made that known at a tech conference Tuesday. NEW FORMATS: Young says he spoke with Jobs about creating a format that has 20 times the fidelity of files in the most current digital formats. Although Young didn't have a practical plan for developing such a format, he says Jobs was on board with the idea before he died from cancer in October. [16] A hush fell over the crowd. Young told the conference Tuesday he spoke with Jobs about creating a format that has 20 times the fidelity of files in the most current digital formats, including MP3. [24]
Most people download music today in either MP3 or AAC formats, but Apple had reportedly been working on delivering high fidelity music and appropriate iPods to be compatible with it. Those hi-fi sounds would come in larger file sizes, and Young said a system could be developed to let the music download to a device at night while people sleep. There are Web sites selling these types of files already, but Young went even further. [20] In order to accomplish the compression, the file is squeezed down so much, it ends up being only containing five percent of the sound from the original. Apple had talked to Young and other musicians about a possible project to build a system that could deliver high-definition music, but with Jobs gone, Young said he felt compelled to continued advocating for such a system. [20] The AAC format Apple uses is also based on MP3, but with channels dedicated to low-frequency effects as well. Young said that he and Jobs had discussed the subject of low-quality MP3s, but that the discussions never moved forward. Jobs had a well-known love of music, and Young said he believed that Jobs shared his view. [25] While chief executive officer of Apple, Jobs sought to offer uncompressed music digitally, Young said today at an AllThingsD.com media conference in Dana Point, California. [23]
Rocker Neil Young was in Dana Point on Tuesday, speaking to the "D: Dive into Media" conference, and spilled the beans. The Apple co-founder was such a fan of music that he didn't use his iPod and its digitally compressed files at home. He didn't even listen to CDs. [24] As an artist who probably makes a substantial income from licensing his music, you might think Neil Young would frown on piracy and file-sharing, but that appears not to be the case, according to an interview he gave at the Dive Into Media conference in Los Angeles. Instead of railing against file-sharers, Young called piracy "the new radio" because it's "how music gets around." [26] Improving the quality of digital music is a personal mission for Neil Young, who spoke at a media conference Tuesday. [12] Neil Young came to the stage of D: Dive into Media to talk with Walt Mossberg and Peter Kafka about the current distribution and quality of digital music. [7]
Digital music purchased through Apple's iTunes or other online retailers contain a fraction of the original recording quality, Young, 66, said. Full versions of songs, which take about 30 minutes each to download, could be sent to devices with larger storage overnight, he said. [23] In order for it to hit the market the "rich people out here" --meaning the conference audience-- need to help. Just because Young resents digital music and technology companies for reducing the quality of most audio content, that doesn't mean he takes a backwards approach to illegal music or the Internet. As for piracy, Young calls it "the new radio," a means by which today's kids listen to new music. Young's ideas are interesting, but is there really a mass market for ultra-quality digital audio? Back in vinyl's heyday of the 60s and 70s, most people didn't buy pricey, wall-sized stereo systems that played The Dark Side of the Moon in its full quadrophonic glory. Rather they were content with scratchy transistor radios, marginal home hi-fi systems, and AM/FM radio. [27]
Talking about storing recorded material, however, is another story. Even so if you goto a concert (not in a stadium setting) and hear an artist live (if they dont suck live) the sound is 100% better than listening to any digital medium, mp3, lossless or anything else. Well duh! Of course it's better it's pumping through better speakers, it gets amplified and/or modified by the acoustics of the room, etc. But live will always be better than any "non-live" medium mp3, CD and even vinyl. It's the nature of it not being live. Regardless though, this whole "5% of audio" is a silly argument. Even if it's mathematically accurate, which I doubt it is, like gorskiegangsta says, most of the rest of it is stuff we can't hear anyway, it's akin to complaining that a photograph of a nebula doesn't show the x-rays and ultra-violets and the infrareds. ilia ]] ilia - January 31, 2012 reply That's what I assuming he means but it's an ambiguous statement. He could be completely clued up or completely clueless. He must know that the only way to recreate music is to recreate the environment in which the music was created and recorded. [7] Young thinks there is no reason why we should lose the rich, full experience of listening to whole albums just because digital downloads offer other ways of purchasing music. That connection between an artist, an audience and that sound is no accident of a particular kind of media. [9]
Being a pioneer of music in the digital realm was what Young hoped to let us all know he'd be carrying on via Jobs spirit. The first and probably largest hurdle for this particular device right out of the box (or before the box exists, rather), is the idea that each song will be taking 30 minutes to download due to its gigantic size. [18] A device which allows you to download music with the highest possible resolution is what Young aims to create. This device will allow ultra high-fidelity audio downloads, and because of Young's talks with Jobs on the matter before he died, Young wasted no time invoking his name to spread the word about it. [18]
Wake up in the morning. Play some real music and listen to the joy of 100 per cent of the sound of music," he said. Although Young didn't have a practical plan for developing such a format -- saying it's for "rich people" to decide -- he said Jobs was on board with the idea before he died from cancer at age 56 in October. [4] The Journal reports that Young, in an onstage interview at the conference in Dana Point, Calif., said the heavily compressed music files most of us listen to today capture only five percent of the sound created by musicians in the studio. "This is the 21st century," said Young. [27] Long live vinyl, said rock icon Neil Young, speaking at an industry conference on Tuesday. According to reports from the conference, the musician argued that digitally compressed music - both the CD and the MP3 - should burn out and fade away. [25] Rolling Stone writer Steven Levy once did the stroll down Jobs's scroll and found plenty of Dylan, Beatles and Rolling Stones, along with Aretha, B.B. King, Buddy Holly, Don McLean, Donovan, Joni Mitchell, Joen Baez, the Doors, Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Cash, Simon and Garfunkel, and even The Monkees. Have you noticed any omissions? That's right: no Harvest, no Tonight's The Night, no Live Rust - no Neil Young. Young believed Jobs would have helped him on his current sonic crusade to develop new hardware capable of playing audio files that preserve more of the data present in original recordings. "You've got to believe that if he'd lived long enough, he would have done what I'm trying to do." [10] Young is primarily concerned about whether the MP3 files we're all listening to actually are pretty poor from an audio-quality standpoint. He says that your average MP3 file only contains about five percent of the audio from an original recording and he says Apple Lossless only offers "10.3 percent." [7] Young's proposed solution to the problem? New hardware devices which will allow users to experience audio files that preserve more of the musical data present in original recordings. [28] What's the solution? New hardware capable of playing audio files that preserve more of the data present in original recordings, said Young. [17]
Young proposes a new high-quality digital format for audio geeks, one that captures all of the information squeezed out of compressed files. One problem with his idea: Humongous files. Young estimates each song would take about 30 minutes to download, and that digital players designed for his audio format would store roughly 30 albums, according to the Journal. [27] Young explained that "some rich guy" would ultimately offer a solution by creating new hardware to preserve more audio content in digital formats, and heralded Jobs as a like-minded soul. [3]
Young doesn't hate digital formats, far from it. He just feels that the "digital age" has caused people to choose between quality and convenience. "They shouldn't have to make that choice," Young said. [6] Hey Hey, My My: MP3, It's Time to Die Rocker Neil Young trashes the quality of today's MP3 format; calls for a new high-quality digital download for serious audiophiles. [27] Neil Young is on a quest to improve upon the MP3 file that dominates digital music. [29] The legendary rocker and longtime critic of the ubiquitous MP3 format was at again today, trashing the sound of today's digital music files, which he says convey only a tiny fraction of the aural splendor conceived by musicians. [27] The MP3 format used by most digital music is a lossy compression algorithm, whose subjective audio quality depends on the bitrate used to record the track, the complexity of the music, and the quality of the encoder, among other factors. The algorithm was designed to cut out portions of the signal that its creators believed users wouldn't hear. [25]
Improving the quality of digital music is a personal mission for Young, who has evangelized for it before. [12]
Neil Young says that when it came to music, the Apple co-founder didn't go digital. [24] The difference of course is Neil Young made plenty of money before digital. Radio stations pay $artists for plays surely he must know this. This of course neglects the little guys who didnt get rich in the pre digital age. Not every musician plays live some artists were just purely recording artists and they basically have 0 chance of making a living of their work these days. [7] Piracy is the new radio. That's how music gets around. That's the radio. If you really want to hear it, let's make it available, let them hear it, let them hear the 95 percent of it. Despite that attitude, Young is still on the side of record labels because they care about music and about supporting artists -- but somehow we doubt those studios take the same attitude towards piracy that Young does. [7] "Piracy is the new radio," said Young, whose music has long had a rebellious streak. [12] Young also said that "piracy is the new radio," suggesting that illegally copying low-quality songs was an acceptable way for fans to sample music before buying higher-quality versions. [4]
"Some rich guy," Young said. Young said that Internet-based sound files are the way music is discovered these days. [22] The legendary rocker is working on a separate device that downloads each song at the highest possible resolution, but that also takes 30 minutes to complete a single download. Young said he is trying to make legal music as convenient as possible, but some worried that the long download times would be inconvenient. Because high-def music files are significantly larger, Young described a system that would allow the device to download it while the user is asleep. [12]
"Not much" has happened with Apple's high-def gadgets and downloads project since Jobs died in October, Young said. [12] Young did not invoke Jobs' name at random. He said that he had been talking with Jobs about the project, but that since the Apple co-founder died in October there is "not much going on now."
Jobs particularly enjoyed the sounds of the sixties, according to his biographer. In 'Steve Jobs', Walter Isaacson writes that the Apple founder once collected concert records by Bob Dylan from his electric period in 1965 and 1966. His collection also included seven Beatles albums and six Rolling Stones albums. It was 'Dylan's words struck chords of creative thinking,' Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, told the biographer. [21] Steve Jobs gestures during Apple's launch of iTunes and a new iPod in San Francisco in 2003. [10] When it came to music, Steve Jobs had a dirty little secret. He was Old School. [24]
Jobs, who launched the first iPod in 2001, was a music collector, particularly enjoying the sounds of the sixties. [21] An iPod with ALC format music, good headphones and good headphone amp sounds great. [21] While modern formats, like MP3, are convenient, they do not represent the original sound of the music, the 66-year-old singer-songwriter said. [21] I find stuff like new trance, chill, lounge digital music sounds great even at 128kbps. [7] Like many audiophiles, Young prefers vinyl records, which have a warm, natural sound that digital audio can't match, according to vinyl fans. [27] Many musicians are embracing the idea of giving fans pristine recordings, often at a premium price. The Rolling Stones issued their first 27 records to one such store. Record companies may like the idea of being able to repackage old albums at a higher price, but they surely weren't on board with all of Young's ideas. [12] The label will advance Pop Hero's royalties from the album sales and tour. In that sense, the label is acting as a loan bank, offering Pop Hero all the money he needs to make it big. If Pop Hero can't pay back the loan with his album sales and tour. That's fine. He continues to work for the label until his contract is up and he pays off his loan. Not only does the label own the rights to his recordings and probably most of his sheet music, but the label will continue to advance him money to create more albums and tours. That's why artists don't bypass labels. The labels can turn any nobody into household name, so it's hard to turn down a record deal with a major company. Once you enter into a record deal with that company, they will own you for life unless you have incredible, ground-breaking, word-wide success (examples of artists that used labels to make it big but have eventually broken away from the shackles of labels: Radiohead, DaftPunk, Dr. Dre). [7] Suddenly music discovery is based on music quality, not on how many marketing dollars can be spent on a single artist. This terrifies the large labels because they can't push out repetitive crap and expect it to sell as well if there are alternatives. There's this side to the story as well. I don't know why you think it's up to you YOU how a musician is marketed or how YOU think they should make money? Shouldn't this be up to the musician? So musicians dont play live how do they make money? A label PAYS MONEY to a band so they can hire a studio, a mixer and a producer and make great albums, a pirate does not. I hate to break it to you but money makes the world go round if you take the money out of the music business it's going to get very crappy for artists. [7]
Neil should address the crapy mastering complaint to the music labels. It does not. That's nonsense. 16 bit/44.1K is NOT studio quality. [7]
Ia said that while Neil's statement is true it is also irrelevant when speaking about an overwhelming majority of people who listen to digital music. [7] I'm curious as to how you would listen to a digital music file without using a DAC. [7]
We hope for music's sake that Young can make something happen in the digital realm other than big business attempting to cut down on piracy. [18] If you don't make it easy for your music or writing or other content to "get around," as Neil Young puts it, then piracy will take care of that for you. [26] Don't forget an important part of the equation: Neil's hearing is probably not 100% after so many years of rock'n'roll. I love Neil Young's music but his business ventures are truly awful. Remember his idea to turn heavy classic cars into EVs? Umm, anybody who knows anything about EVs will tell you that weight is the primary concern. This new venture will also fail. [7]
The creator of the iPod chose to listen to vinyl records when he was at home rather than use more modern gadgets, Neil Young has claimed. [21] Neil claimed that " the MP3 files we're all listening to actually are pretty poor from an audio-quality standpoint". While it's a true statement, it is also an irrelevant one. Since most people listen through their headphones, the perceived quality loss is virtually nonexistent. Studio master copies are another story though even those can be fully digitally encoded with, in Neil's words "100% of the sound". [7] "The MP3 only has 5 percent of the data present in the original recording. The convenience of the digital age has forced people to choose between quality and convenience, but they shouldn't have to make that choice." [25] The difference between the vinyl sound (or original recording) and a digital copy is the digital version is compressed to save on storage space and transfer speed. [20] Industry-standard MP3 files have only about 5% of all the sounds that were contained in the original recording, which is called a "master." [12]
Most people can easily hear that MP3s seriously degrade music. Gizmodo sent a guy over to my place to "prove" it to me and left understanding that he'd been listening to garbage sound, which is what you're proposing people be served. [7] "I like to point that out to artists. That's why people listen to music differently today. It's all about the bottom and the beat driving everything, and that's because in the resolution of the music, there's nothing else you can really hear. [25] Since most people listen to music through headphones nowadays there's absolutely no point in offering "100% of the sound". [7] Wake up in the morning. Play some real music and listen to the joy of 100 per cent of the sound of music,' he said. [15]
Music compression takes advantage of that by compressing the sound so that there's virtually zero perceived quality loss. [7] Young likened speakers and headphones to "the back end of the donkey," suggesting that the problem with music quality is not in the output methods, but in the lower-quality input formats. [19] Let the people have 100 percent, or 99 percent. Young said that other high-resolution formats, such as Super Audio CD and DVD Audio, failed because of poor marketing and business decisions. He cited Sony's control over the SACD format and the focus on multichannel audio for DVD-Audio. [19] "My goal is to try to rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said, speaking at the D: Dive Into Media conference on Tuesday. Isn't this a losing battle? Walt Mossberg pressed Young. [22] The warmth and the depth at the high end is gone." "It's not that digital is bad or inferior, it's that the way it's being used isn't doing justice to the art," Young said, according to AllThingsD, a few days later. [25] To Young's dismay as well as that of thousands of other artists the ease of digital downloads comes with a significant loss in another area: quality. [9] The only effective difference is that.WAV (and AIFF) use a lot more storage space. He sounds smarter than I would have ever given him credit for. That is most likely why he is filthy, dirty rich. Lets get to the real issue hereapple's crappy white ear buds!!! Who cares how amazing the sound quality of the digital file is when its being listened to through some of the worst quality headphones on the planet. I think that is the fault of the consumer if they expect to have great sound quality from the "thrown in" earbuds. [7] Do you have speakers at home that cost over $50,000? I'm pretty sure you'll never experience sound quality at home that matches what you'll hear in a well-funded concert, ever. [7]
You can not make a high quality copy when the quality of the master is not high quality those live Bob Dylan concerts would never of been recorded to in a high enough quality to make it sound better on mp3 but Vinyl is simply a more forgiving medium and so it naturally sounds better (if you can get past the pops and cracks). [21] Vinyl is superior to CD, CD is superior to MP3 and poxy earphones. What people should be exploring is HD audio. this does sound amazing. [21] No CD player or mp3 player will NEVER, EVER, EVER be able to compete with top notch turntable packages from the likes of Linn Products Ltd in Glasgow Scotland. MP3 player quality is very poor yet they still rip you off by charging you a high price for it? Most people are ignorant to the fact and have never heard half decent audio equipment. [21]
Truth is, things haven't changed all that much. The iPod's audio quality is good enough for most music fans, even if it's far--well, very far--from perfect. [27] There is also the issue of download times, a whole generation of consumers fed on iTunes may baulk at the prospect of having to wait half an hour to download 24-bit, high-fidelity audio recordings. There is something exciting about the idea and as this infographic from TechKing shows portable music has come a long way since the first transistor. [13] Except that Piracy's affect on the music industry is impossible to measure, and the record companies measure every pirated song as a lost sale, without measuring the influence of the spread of music in any way what-so-ever. It helps them inflate numbers and justify million-dollar piracy lawsuits, but it doesn't tell the whole story. [7] How many small independent labels need to go out of business before you realize that piracy doesn't just hurt the Ke$ha's out there. A label usually LOANS money to a band to record their music. That's a big difference. Labels aren't charities they're in it for the money. [7] Wish there was an edit button, but something I'd like to add: One big difference between radio and piracy is that the radio is still controlled by the major record labels. Any unsigned bands, regardless of how good they, are not able to benefit from all the people listening to the radio. [7] Piracy is the new radio. That's how music gets around. This idea of piracy as being "how content gets around" doesn't just apply to music either. In a videotaped comment last year about piracy, British author Neil Gaiman who I interviewed recently about his opposition to the proposed federal anti-piracy bills SOPA and PIPA said that he used to be irate about people pirating his work, but eventually came to realize that he was actually selling more copies of his physical books in those countries where piracy was the highest. Brazilian author Paulo Coelho found the same thing, and actually started uploading his own work to files-sharing sites without telling his publisher. [26]
Not enough to make much money from. I could definitely be wrong, but from what I remember, Neil's efforts of turning his old car into an EV wasn't a "business venture", but more to raise awareness and show that it could be done. I believe this is a similar scenario with music. This isn't a "venture". He's, again, raising awareness to try to get music quality to continue moving forward. [7]
As the process of producing and recording high quality music continues to come down, I hope that what the future brings is more independent music. [7]
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Under Jobs, Apple upended the music industry, all but killing off the once-mighty compact disc. [9] Wake up in the morning. While Young admitted there was no practical plan in place to develop the format, he said Jobs was keen to get involved before he died in October from pancreatic cancer. [21] Jobs was personally involved in the high-def initiative, speaking directly to Young about it, the 66-year-old musician recalled. [12]
Artists who want to go it alone should just do that." Young discussed piracy, which he doesn't view as the threat that some other musicians do. [17] Just a few days ago, Young spoke at the Sundance Film Festival. "If you're an artist and you created something and you knew the master was 100 percent great, but the consumer got 5 percent, would you be feeling good?" he told MTV News. [25] Young, however, rightly points out that the digital encoding only captures a small percent of the musical data in a master recording. [6] As Young himself cited, even CDs offer only 15 percent of the recording information from the master tracks. [9]
Despite Apple's success and the tumult of the recording industry at large, Young believes that not everything has changed. [9]
The rocker, speaking at a technology conference, said the Apple founder preferred the sound compared to the iPod's digitally-compressed files. [21] I can crank it up and no discernable distortion. Having said all that, I'd guess perhaps 95% of my music collection is FLAC and some of those have mirrored files in Apple Lossless. [7] I love that goddamn Canadian. I want to get stoned with his sideburns. Considering Apple lets all their iPods and iPhones ship with the abomination that are the 'White Earbuds' I have a feeling that they are really that concerned with hearing '100%' of music. [7]
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Mp3 has opened good music and made it more accessible which is only ever a good thing for music. HAHAHAHHA. That's so CLASSIC. analog better than digital. [21] The "mp3s contain only 5-10% of original sound in music" is a bit misleading. [7] Am I the only one who thinks live music usually sounds like ****? Usually too much echo and noise. [7] In fact, the music that I love and listen to most often, I have purchased physical copies of (plus band merchandise, and concert tickets), and the rest I could easily live without. It's also mostly music that would never get played on the radio, since it's not Ke$ha or Lady Gaga or whatever other popular music is being played repetitively. [7]
Of course, radio became a huge revenue driver for music although it did so in part because record labels and publishers pushed for licensing fees. More than just being a source of fees, radio was also a huge publicity engine for music, and eventually this became so obvious that at one point record labels were giving radio stations and disc jockeys “payola” under the table to promote their music. [26]
If we're happy to have far far less musicians making money full time making music then sure piracy isn't going to kill the music industry. [7] All bands are on the same level, with the same amount of promotion when it comes to piracy. You can discover amazing unsigned bands or discover amazing signed bands, both of which you may never have heard of, but the unsigned one would have had a much lesser chance of reaching your ears. The good bands are then recommended and their music is distributed based on recommendation, voting systems, and comments. [7]
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We were working on it," Young said. "You've got to believe if he lived long enough he would eventually try to do what I'm trying to do." The Associated Press contributed to this report. [24] "The woman of the house doesn't want five boxes out there," Young said. "They've should've made DVD Audio a stereo thing, but they failed." [19]
Young has argued that the MP3 and CD should be tossed on the technology scrap heap, in favor of vinyl, a technology that's been around for decades. [25] I can add Neil Young to a select group of musicians, including Trent Reznor, who "get it". [7] "No," Young insisted, saying that what is needed is just a better music-playing device a better iPod, if you will. Who is going to produce this? Mossberg asked. [22] None of the original uncompressed data is lost - that's what 'lossless' means by definition (as opposed to mp3, which is 'lossy'). An album in ALC is about 300MB and you could fit about 500 such albums on a 160GB iPod. 300MB would take as long to download as a single tv show episode. [21]
Interviewer Walt Mossberg said Jobs had expressed surprise that 'people traded quality, to the extent they had, for convenience or price'. He added: 'My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years. [21] The iPhone supports AIFF format which is essentially the same thing. i.e. uncompressed PCM data. That said, at the same bit depth and sampling rate Apple lossless will give you exactly the same digital output as a.WAV file. [7] Modern digital formats sound great on my phone and I have no problem with it. [6]
For more on Neil & his quest for better sounding music for listeners....scroll to the bottom of this link
http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_t5_2/music-young-digital.html
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We are raised to honor all the wrong explorers & discoverers-
-thieves planting flags, murderers carrying crosses.
Let us at last praise the colonizers of dreams.
-Peter S. Beagle 1973
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Edited by - lemonade kid on 01/02/2012 18:58:10 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 18:34:34
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wheres Time Fades Away Neil?!  |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 18:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
wheres Time Fades Away Neil?!
The audio isn't god enough for Neil's standards.
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We are raised to honor all the wrong explorers & discoverers-
-thieves planting flags, murderers carrying crosses.
Let us at last praise the colonizers of dreams.
-Peter S. Beagle 1973
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Neil at the 'speed of sound'
