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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2011 : 18:13:02
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They have a whole new teenage fan base....they belong in the Hall, dammit!
Studio recordings controversy
When the Monkees toured the U.K.in 1967, there was a major controversy over the revelation that the group did not always play all of their own instruments in the studio, although they did play them all while touring (except for the solo segments, which used backing band the Candy Store Prophets). The story made the front pages of several UK and international music papers, with the group derisively dubbed "The Pre-Fab Four". Nevertheless, they were generally welcomed by many British stars, who realized the group included talented musicians and sympathized with their wish to have more creative control over their music, and the Monkees frequently socialized with the likes of The Beatles, the Spencer Davis Group, and The Who.
Many Monkees fans argued that the controversy unfairly targeted the band, while conveniently ignoring the fact that a number of leading British and American groups (including critical favorites such as the Byrds and the Beach Boys) habitually used session players on their recordings, including many of the very same musicians who performed on records by the Monkees. This commonplace practice had previously passed without comment. However, the Beatles had led a wave of groups who provided most of their own instrumentation on their recordings and wrote most of their own songs. The comic book quality of the Monkees' television series (where they mimed song performances out of necessity) brought additional scrutiny of their recorded music. But both supporters and critics of the group agree that the producers and Kirshner had the good taste to use some of the best pop songwriters of the period. Neil Diamond, the Boyce-Hart partnership, Jack Keller, Gerry Goffin and Carole King, Harry Nilsson, Barry Mann, Cynthia Weil, and many other highly regarded writers had songs recorded by the Monkees.
In November 1967, the wave of anti-Monkee sentiment was reaching its peak while the Monkees released their fourth album, Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, & Jones Ltd. In liner notes for the 1995 re-release of this album, Nesmith was quoted as saying that after Headquarters, "The press went into a full-scale war against us, talking about how 'The Monkees are four guys who have no credits, no credibility whatsoever and have been trying to trick us into believing they are a rock band.' Number one, not only was this not the case; the reverse was true. Number two, for the press to report with genuine alarm that the Monkees were not a real rock band was looney tunes! It was one of the great goofball moments of the media, but it stuck."
The Monkees went back into the recording studio, largely separately, and produced a large volume of recordings, material that eventually turned up on several albums. (wiki)
Great music from HEADQUARTERS....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-W0ZIO-hMU&feature=related
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 11/03/2011 21:47:05 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2011 : 05:35:52
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you get the new Head 3 cd box set?
they're never getting into the hall of fame. They weren't a real band. They were a TV SHOW about a band
Of course later they started to write and be more involved in the creative process (writing a feature film, asking Hendrix to open for them after seeing him at MOnterey)
THe Monkees = the Marx Brothers? give reasons for your answer!
Just picked up the Criterion dvd for Head |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2011 : 18:12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
you get the new Head 3 cd box set?
they're never getting into the hall of fame. They weren't a real band. They were a TV SHOW about a band
Of course later they started to write and be more involved in the creative process (writing a feature film, asking Hendrix to open for them after seeing him at MOnterey)
THe Monkees = the Marx Brothers? give reasons for your answer!
Just picked up the Criterion dvd for Head
I have just HEAD, not the box.
I must kindly disagree. They were a BAND (even if brought together by the powers that be...but CSN were brought together by Joni Mitchell). They lip-synced out of necessity on the TV show, but they could not have gotten the likes of Tim Buckley or Zappa (in HEAD also) to appear if they weren't well respected.
They toured as a band and were quite good live...the UK was very taken with them In the UK they were received by & hung-out with serious UK musicians, the likes of The Beatles, Spencer Davis Group, & The Who. They considered themselves serious musicians. The TV show was about the money--that's why Stills auditioned--they were starving!
They fought Kirshner for creative control as a BAND and starting with HEADQUARTERS, played their own instruments, while later employing other session guys as did the Byrds, Beach Boys etc.
But like the Beatles, they had creative differences, and later started recording on their own for inclusion in Monkees albums.
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 12/03/2011 22:07:32 |
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2011 : 22:43:50
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Lemonadekid is absolutely right - once you see past the glossy teen commercialism on which so many corporate profits depended,the Monkees' true musical art becomes apparent. Their albums are packed with some fine recordings whilst between 1966 and 68, their rapid succession of highly original singles really helped to shake up the pop music scene over here. They showcased the work of some magnificent songwriters...but above all else, they brought a lot of happiness to many people.
I didn't always see it like that. It seemed in early 1967 as though the writing was really on the wall. The Beatles' Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields single reached only Number 2 on the BBC singles chart (an average of the listings from several leading magazines). That was the first time that the Fab Four had failed to hit the top spot since Love Me Do in 1962.......and I wasn't at all happy. And then there were wild and irresposnsible rumours circulating that there was to be a do or die play off between the two bands at Wembley Stadium....with the losers agreeing to quit the scene for good. Since then I have looked much more thoroughly into The Monkees' legacy and have discovered a fascinating lost past. And later this year of course they (or at least three of them) will be touring the UK once again. 
"The Four Kings of EMI are sitting stately on the floor" - from Randy Scouse Git (US title) or Alternate Title (UK)........what is it with you Americans?  |
Edited by - John9 on 12/03/2011 23:26:49 |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2011 : 23:50:39
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quote:
j9-
"The Four Kings of EMI are sitting stately on the floor" - from Randy Scouse Git (US title) or [i]Alternate Title (UK)........what is it with you Americans?
I love that song. j9....so there was an "alternate title" in the UK so as not to offend our British friends?!
"Randy Scouse Git"is roughly translated--"Lustful fool from Liverpool"? and was taken from the sitcom "Til Death Do Us Part"--Micky saw it on the telly while they toured England.
Another fine tune from Headquarters...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLvfDWie0XY
Does anyone remember seeing Micky in a great (well, classic) 50's TV show called CIRCUS BOY? I watched every week!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxSLww4mw6w
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 12/03/2011 23:52:22 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2011 : 01:14:54
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The Monkees grew into a great little band later
I mean, check out As We Go Along
(I did a cover of the song off the Head soundtrack):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRkF5BX57g
Me doing "Early Morning Blues and Greens" (off Headquarters (Rhino), Headquarters Sessions (Rhino Handmade):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRWD0Y-IKaA
But their early stuff.. "Laugh" (off More of the Monkees) .. "The day we fall in love" (ditto) ... Yikes!
I can't see them ever getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Actually, the Marx Brothers might've been more of an effect than the Four Kings of EMI!
I remember when Davy Jones was trying to start up a hall of fame museum for bubblegum near where he lived in Connecticut, around the same time he recorded JustMe (post Justus, by the MOnkees, so late 90s?)
I can't see it happening. Love some of their later stuff myself (anyone know the chords to French Song off the Monkees Present?) |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2011 : 16:54:37
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I never believed the Monkees would get in the Hall, only felt they should.
The day Laura Nyro gets in is no more likely....so we need our own HALL, starting with LoVE as its first inductee!!! The list of greats that are NOT in the Hall, but should be, is huge; and the list of artists that SHOULDN'T be in the Hall(by comparison) is endless!!
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 13/03/2011 16:56:03 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2011 : 19:49:51
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what? no Moby Grape?!
or is that the Melvilles? I forget! |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2011 : 13:49:20
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their rapid succession of highly original singles ...They showcased the work of some magnificent songwriters...
Oh yes with Mike in the band...very very creative guy!....
You know it's 'tantamount to treason' for some not to give the band its due!.... |
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ALLANAGAIN
Old Love
United Kingdom
687 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2011 : 16:24:16
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As a little kid i liked the t.v. show nand a few singles "lAST TRAIN TO CLARKEVILLE" and "DAYDREAM BELIEVER" but i coulden,t really consider them as a serious band.
Love, Grateful Dead, Spirit ..YES
Monkee,s ...NO |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2011 : 16:45:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ALLANAGAIN
As a little kid i liked the t.v. show nand a few singles "lAST TRAIN TO CLARKEVILLE" and "DAYDREAM BELIEVER" but i coulden,t really consider them as a serious band.
Love, Grateful Dead, Spirit ..YES
Monkee,s ...NO
But you gotta respect them for trying to get that resect, breaking a way from Kirshner, wrenching creative control from the powers, making an anti-movie movie with so many anti-Monkees/anti-establishment scenes and committing commercial suicide literally and figuratively by jumping off that bridge in HEAD. Unfortunately they couldn't get out from under their own shadow....but listening to "Pisces, Capricorn, Aquarius" & "Jones or HEAD" is a great musical treat and a far cry from "Hey Hey We're The Monkees".
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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ALLANAGAIN
Old Love
United Kingdom
687 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2011 : 17:43:28
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As John 9 rightly said....they bought alot of happiness to many people.
Indeed they did to me as a little kid, and there are alot of worse things to be remembered for than creating happiness.
Good luck to them |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2011 : 03:05:49
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probably my favorite Monkees track, Don't Call On Me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_aMf3F1wss
I do a pretty good cover of it if I do say so myself!
I was always surprised that Rhino Handmade didn't do a 3cd box set for Pisces, like they did for Headquarters (Headquarters Sessions, long out of print
Of course the recent 3cd box for the Head film soundtrack may be a little extreme, what with there being only 6 songs on the original album
Of course, considering that As We Go Along and Porpoise Song are superb.. |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9873 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2011 : 03:38:15
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A good friend and I watched HEAD last night....he had never seen it. I have the Rhino DVD that is long OOP.....I love that old cardboard Eco-packaging they used for a while.
Any way...we thoroughly enjoyed it. He had never heard a single track. No wonder it never made it to the theaters...the execs must have blown a gasket with all the anti-war/politico commentary! Fun stuff still today. The Zappa cameo was his favorite bit!
_____________________________________________
Letting your freak flag fly is a state of mind,
not a fashion statement.
-lk |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3491 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2011 : 19:31:59
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I understand the Criterion dvd of Head (released 2010) has a superior print (35 mm?) - I'll undoubtedly do a video review of it once I get a chance to watch it in the next day or so
this ones a lot of fun, off Birds the Bees and the Monkees - Aunties Municipal Court being covered by yours truly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTKe0iXmcZ0
Hey Hey We're The Monkees is the best documentary on the tv band (put out by Rhino in the late 90s) although the dvd release of it seems to leave off the interviews that follow the end credits on Hendrix, etc
I still wonder why |
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captain america and billy
Old Love
907 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2011 : 20:37:09
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| Personally, I think being selected to be in the Monkees miight have seriously hindered the serious musician reps of Peter Tork and Mike Nesmith. Tork was hanging out with Stephen Stills who also auditioned for the NBC series and was seriously persuing a folk/pop career with intrepid endeavour. Stills was rejected for having bad teeth and wound up better off forming the Buffalo Springfield. Perhaps Tork might have also been a member. Instead, he wound up the world knowing him as a slow witted flunkie instead of the highly musically talented,deep thinking,insightful person he actually is by accounts of those who have known him. Meanwhile,Nesmith subbsequently made some critically acclaimed country-rock albums in the '70's. However, Dolenz and Jones were really more theatrical personalities and as a whole,although they may have inspired future rock greats to first pick up drumsticks or guitars and were obvously an enormous influence rock as video art in the way of Beatles' director Richard Lester,I just don't see how they had any genuine lasting impact on recording industry standard,whether artistically or technically. Quick note:Mickey Dolenz,though,was the first person to use Moog aynthesizer in pop("Star Collector") |
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Monkees all over the world...
