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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2008 : 11:47:58
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We've obviously seen a quite a few detailed reviews now of the new 2CD edition of 'Forever Changes' and I just wondered whether people felt, after taking time to reflect, that the power of Love's masterpiece had been enhanced........ or diminished by this latest treatment. There does seem now to be quite a vogue for repackaging classic original single albums as 2CD sets and I notice that this very month Jethro Tull's debut, 'This Was', has been given a very similar overhaul - even though that too has previously reappeared in a remastered and expanded form.
I feel that the only justifiable bonus tracks are: non album singles and compositions that were considered for inclusion at the time before being withdrawn. I suppose that a case could also be made for very different versions of previously released songs. The 2001 edition scored very well on all of these but I am still very much in two minds about the new 'Collectors' Edition'. Imagine a new edition of TS Elliot's 'The Wasteland' with a handful of limericks tossed in....rhymes that had been composed by the poet for private amusement. Or better still, how about a 500th anniversary CD-ROM box set for the 'Mona Lisa'- alongside a digital upgrade of the original could be a previously unseen version of the painting minus the smile! And the whole thing could be nicely rounded off with some recently discovered sletches of Leonardo getting it together, off canvass, with one of his models.
In his forward to the 2001 edition of 'Forever Changes', Andrew Sandoval wrote that "with Love, there will always be more mystery than fact". To my mind that has always been part of the group's magic. |
Edited by - John9 on 05/05/2008 11:53:03 |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2008 : 14:22:31
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john9...some good points....I think all who have the new issue like it and consider it "essential". As a record of a group's work, there's an argument for including some of those tracks. I'd think the same thing would occur for those examples you gave about poetry or art. Say there was another copy of Eliot's work floating around where he had different words or construction in the poem. Looks to me some English academic would possibly include that in a new "compilation" of the poet's work. Those guys go crazy for that sort of stuff. Keeps the poet in the limelight and keeps them talking about the guy in their journals. Right now, I'm sure critics and fans and soon to be fans are getting another look at the band.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want this to go to the extent that if somebody says F*** Y** in the background of "You Set The Scene" that it has to get included, you know? Then it gets ridiculous. |
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2008 : 17:32:34
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Yes, Rocker - you have a very good case there. I suppose that a truly specialised interest in something knows no bounds.... and nor should it. Mind you, I do find that 'Red Telephone tracking session' together with the 'outtake' that follows it, really irritating. |
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TJSAbass
Fourth Love
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2008 : 22:17:29
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| I often wrestle with that, whether it's better to destroy the mystery by finding out more and more about a favorite artist. I am currently reading Eye Mind, the story of the 13th Floor Elevators. Another '60's icon whom very little was known about, until now. On the one hand, I feel a new appreciation for the drive of Tommy Hall to push forward with his vision of the band in the face of ridiculous police persecution. But knowing the effect of drug use on the band members, I almost wish I had left it to imagination. One key point I am finding, be it Velvet Underground, Love, or Elevators, it becomes very apparent that true visionaries are often not appreciated until decades later... |
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ed the bear
Fourth Love
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:42:45
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On the 2001 release, I found the tracking session for "Your Mind and We" fascinating the first time, tedious the third. I found the alternate mixes of "Alone Again Or" and "You Set the Scene" not as good as the originals. An I a candidate for the new release? I can't make up my mind.
I fantasize about an alternate version of the album without the orchestration -- not because I don't like the orchestration, but it's always fascinating to hear the "skeleton" of a song.
Side note. Maybe you've seen this, John, but somewhere (in a book, not online) I've seen a reproduction of T.S. Eliot's manuscript for "The Waste Land" as marked up by Ezra Pound. About thirty lines into it is "April is the cruelest month" and Pound has drawn an arrow pointing at it, and the words "Start here" scrawled in.
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bob f.
Old Love
USA
1308 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 04:54:39
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there can never be too much LOVE recordings released. no harm done. those of us who have everything already of F.C. and want more already know by now what to expect from the special edition, and i am satisfied with what i have, now, and respect any and all additions up to a point, as mentioned above.
my only quest is Johnny Echol's legendary project(dont remember how to spell it), and any and all live classic 60s video/audio LOVE!
...what the world needs now... |
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lemonade kid
Old Love
USA
9876 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 06:09:48
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quote:
Originally posted by John9
Yes, Rocker - you have a very good case there. I suppose that a truly specialised interest in something knows no bounds.... and nor should it. Mind you, I do find that 'Red Telephone tracking session' together with the 'outtake' that follows it, really irritating.
I find the Red Telephone tracking session irritating also, John9. It proves there are
some takes we can do without. A little discretion is required. On the other hand, I enjoy the
little side track by the band on the Wooly Bully out take......good to hear some fun being had
by the boys. For me the ideal format would have been the original FC on CD #1, the alt
mixes ONLY of FC on CD #2, & if enough good material exists, a 3rd CD of unreleased singles
& alt mixes of whatever. But then, it's always easy to second guess a new release & it's
authors. At least it makes for good debate on message boards......any one have any ideal
format they'd like to see in a perfect world of LOVE releases? How about some alt mixes
of their first LP & Da Capo?! |
Edited by - lemonade kid on 06/05/2008 06:12:56 |
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Joe Morris
Old Love
3492 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 16:21:57
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| I think "Red Light Green Light" was rehearsed at the first album session, at least according to the session sheets reprinted in Castle issue 13 on the first page! |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 16:36:45
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ed the bear...hearing the 'skeleton' of a song....and I can see that...makes me think of how say the 2nd take of "..Between Clark & Hilldale' sounded compared to the last take..that's like seeing how a song is created. As you probably know, we get that with the Byrds on some of their cds hearing before and after release tracks. And what I'd like to see is how some people would do "instrumental" versions of FC or other songs by the band. They have some good melodic stuff. Maybe a good instrumental band could do wonders with it.
And on mystery..you know there a couple of films with special effects or scenes that I like but I have never checked on how they did it or where they did it. You know I don't care. I know I'm afraid that it's going to change the way I look at the film if I "know" how they did it. Yes, takes away the mystery. |
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The sweet disorder
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 22:26:36
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| Although I have bought it and listened to it, I am not sure that hearing any outtakes enahnces the reputation of the album involved. My view is for good and bad, that is the album that Love released and it should stand on its own merits. The outtakes have curiosity value but that's it. I remember the Beatles Anthology being released and the sense of cringing I had when you see them fumbling to get the finished result. I always thought that certain musicians were avatars from other planets and that's why they were able to create such fantastic music. Any outtake seems to de-mystify that. Listening to Arthur labour the point of time is money during the Red Telephone doesn't add anything to the song. That's my opinion anyway..... |
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scully
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
217 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 13:53:03
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I don't think we could expect the outtakes to 'improve' FC -- it's simply the greatest album ever. I like the package, with the original on it's own CD, nice photos etc and can only hope that it reaches more people.
From my perspective I find anything to do with the creation of the record fascinating, so the outtakes and alternates are at least 'interesting' for me. I like the fact the record is just one possible version of the songs, mixed and presented in one particular way, and could have been something different -- and that the final record was arrived at by a process of craft by Arthur the band and Bruce Botnick, and they made those decisions without (I assume) knowing that 40 years later it would be regarded as such a classic.
It's just a shame that there isn't more to make available....
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 14:49:25
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| ..."greatest album ever"..arguably right on...I know that's why I'm here really enjoying discussing it here....and to keep on learning more too as people contribute their ideas which get built on...I'd like to think we haven't scratched the surface..;-)... |
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 17:53:22
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Ed - thanks for the call on Ezra Pound and 'The Waste Land'. I really would love to see the edition you mentioned. At least T.S. Elliot is someone to whom both our countries can lay claim! I first became aware of 'The Waste Land' when it was acted out on television over here some time in the 1980's - I immediately went out and bought a copy of the poem and although I don't think that I've ever read it sequentially, whenever I do dip into it I feel that I've picked up on something else that had eluded me the previous time. My favourite line is the one that begins "Good night, ladies, goodnight, sweet ladies". There is an episode of 'Inspector Morse' in which the high brow detective quotes this line directly....although the irony is lost on the other characters in the scene!
Similarly, 'Forever Changes' has that same quality of truly great art. On first hearing, you have that feeling that there are maybe twenty different ideas and themes.......but that you've picked up on just three or four for now. On first listening to 'The Red Telephone' at the end of side one, I just knew that it was the best piece of popular music I had ever heard - and I still think that way. But it was another year and a half before a close friend of mine explained to me the link with Peter Weiss's play 'Marat Sade' - and then of course, all the apocalyptic imagery took on even greater resonance. Three or four weeks ago I saw a superb performance of an early Arthur Miller play entitled 'The Man Who Had All the Luck'. Like many great works, the play asks many more questions than it answers - Miller apparently believed that if the playwright had done his job properly the members of the audience would take these questions away and ask them of their own lives. To my mind, that is exactly what the original version of 'Forever Changes' does. And as Rocker says, we are probably nearer the start of the journey than the end.
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2008 : 14:23:32
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very good...and since we're in English class again... which I personally liked.....
"We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
is rounded with sleep"
Good old Shakes....I like his english and its pretty good too....
I thought Arthur and the band wrote about the time we wake up and when we go to bed..;-)...for a guy who can write lyrics like "The Good Humor Man" and place them alongside "Signed DC' well I think listeners wouldn't do so bad to keep on listening to what he has to say about life...I call it "keeping focused", eh???? Keeps you honest I'd say... |
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Love's Labours Lost?
