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sometimesmylifeissoeerie
Fourth Love
198 Posts |
 Posted - 14/08/2007 : 04:05:29
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I was lucky enough to find this book by Michael Stuart-Ware at a library.
I must admit that I was a bit turned off on this book by reading what some people here were saying about it (and Michael) when it first came out, but now that I've read it, I don't understand what the complaints were about.
It's an autobiography of MSW up to the time he decided to leave the music business, including of course, his two year stint with LOVE.
Before he joined LOVE, he was the drummer for the Sons of Adam, who LOVE admired greatly, enough to give them "Feathered Fish" (which I've never heard) and "7 and 7 Is"(which they turned down).
After many offers from LOVE, MSW replaced "Snoopy" as drummer and played on "Da Capo" and "Forever Changes".
I was surprised at the portrait MSW paints of AL during those two years as more of a very talented but mean-spirited creep, than the complete lunatic AL seems to have tried to project himself as to the press and his fans.
As usual, the truth is always more mundane than the legend.
This fits in pretty well with what we've heard about him from another member of LOVE (Jay Donellan)who posts here.
AL seems to have enjoyed putting his band members down when he wasn't happy with how things were going, and seemed to side with Electra when it came to using studio musicians instead of the LOVE band to record Forever Changes.
AL seemed to have been closer to Johnny Echols than the other guys in the band and usually only spoke to the other guys when he wanted to get his way about something, and usually ordered them around like the coach of a basketball team (which is how MSW thought AL basically saw the world- being that he was known as a high school basketball star as a teen).
There is more interaction with the other guys in the band on MSW's part than with AL, and there are endless stories of Snoopy, Kenny, Johnny (all of whom MSW lived with) and Bryan's time with the band.
MSW seemed to be more level-headed than the other guys in the band, and he doesn't seem to have any hidden agenda in writing this book.
I never knew the story about Jim Morrison skinny-dipping in AL's pool and being castigated by AL when he was caught!
AL got very upset when anyone messed with his house (he also berated a guy who was trying to make a documentary about LOVE, and went in AL's house when AL was out.
This fits in very well with why AL had to do 6 years of hard time.
Musically, it seemed to be that AL would have everything mapped out in his mind (or on paper- it's not clear whether AL wrote out individual parts for the guys, or just chord changes and bass notes and beats)and then rehearsed them till they were ready to record.
This holds true with how Jay Donnelan described the "Four Sail" sessions, but I'm not sure if they rehearsed first. |
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The sweet disorder
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2007 : 18:33:07
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Not sure that'd the reason Arthur Lee had to do six years of hard time. Its pretty well established that Arthur got done on a trumped up charge...i.e somebody else (Doug something if I recall)shot a gun from Arthur's apartment which Arthur got 12 years (yes 12 years) for. Not sure how Arthur could have done much about that and perhaps the California justice system was too blame or maybe I'm being a bit naive, especially as Arthur was a black man who had never had car insurance (I seem the prosecution used as part of the evidence)
Not even sure that MSW received that much criticism about his book. The problem with it is that it doesn't have much insight into Arthur which I for one was hoping for. Boils down to somebody in Arthur's band for 2 years who probably knew nothing about Arthur, which I guess suited Arthur all along |
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sometimesmylifeissoeerie
Fourth Love
198 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2007 : 21:49:02
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Yeah, there was a lot less about AL than I thought there would be.
Apparently, AL didn't want to have much to do with anyone in the band.
There was a competitive thing happening between Bryan and AL, and AL limited BM's song contributions to only two songs per album.
MSW mistakenly attributed "Andmoreagain" to BM, when it was AL's song.
MSW also never mentioned the "Castle" by name.
I thought they all lived together there, but MSW always lived with Forssi, Snoopy, or Echols in another place.
One strange thing was AL's announcement to the group that he was going to retire from music at the age of 25.
Jac Holtzman said AL had no interest in pursuing a career in music, in that Love Story documentary.
I guess that had something to do with him disliking the music business.
But what did he do other than music? Paint houses?
I guess he meant retiring from everything.
I mentioned the jail time thing because I thought maybe it was related to his not wanting to be bothered by anyone at his home.
He pretty much burnt his bridges with the Doors by castigating Jim Morrison in front of the Love band, for swimming in his pool nude, and accused that documentary film maker of stealing $50 from his house when he entered it with no one home.
But who knows what really happened when that neighbor told him to lower his stereo?
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2007 : 23:47:33
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| I think that all this is what makes Arthur Lee the most enigmatic figure in the history of popular music. He never kept precisely the same lineup for any two albums. His spoken remarks were sometimes scarcely comprehensible. He had a potentially volatile nature -in addition to the more well known incidents there was some unpleasantness in a Nottingham restaurant in 2002. And yet in the midst of all this lay the essence of his genius. In the classic 1970 Rolling Stone interview, Jan Wenner asked John Lennon whether he believed that he was a genius - Lennon repled that he was - which to my mind shows that he probably wasn't - he was just a damned good writer of popular music. But with Arthur I think it was different. Like some painters, poets, novelists and classical music composers, he was perhaps unaware of how other people gauged the true worth of his work - or of how to become and remain successful commercially. We know that it was probably only in his later years that he came to accept 'Forever Changes' for what it truly was. Reaching that higher artistic plane (and not being aware that you've reached it) often comes at the price of self destructive tendencies - but without all that Arthur would not have been the subject of so much fascination - or affection. |
Edited by - John9 on 16/08/2007 23:48:47 |
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2007 : 19:04:14
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[quote]Originally posted by The sweet disorder
Not sure that'd the reason Arthur Lee had to do six years of hard time. Its pretty well established that Arthur got done on a trumped up charge...i.e somebody else (Doug something if I recall)shot a gun from Arthur's apartment which Arthur got 12 years (yes 12 years) for. Not sure how Arthur could have done much about that and perhaps the California justice system was too blame or maybe I'm being a bit naive, especially as Arthur was a black man who had never had car insurance (I seem the prosecution used as part of the evidence)
KD: Methinks naive SDO - nothing personal. But Arthur (like Phil Spector) had a long history of criminal acts and gun waiving. The more you pull guns on people the more the likely hood it'll come back and get you one day - from what I've heard this wasn't Arthur's only stint in the big house either - just the one that got the most attention.
Free the guns ! (from us !) |
Edited by - kdion11 on 17/08/2007 19:06:45 |
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The sweet disorder
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2007 : 12:24:35
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KD
yes I probably am...struggle to understand the "gun culture" here in the UK although it is getting progressively worse here, especially here in Manchester with gang warfare and drive by shootings (sound like LA doesn't it!!!) Thinking back, I think it was Arthur's gun the lad was shooting!!!!!
Cheers |
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rocker
Old Love
USA
3606 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 14:20:08
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| You know I would hope that somebody who understand music, musical culture and artists would write Arthur Lee's biography. I think he deserves it and hopefully a serious professional work will come out in the next few years. And I'd hope it keeps away from a title like the life of the "Gunslinger from Love". |
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 18:56:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The sweet disorder
KD
yes I probably am...struggle to understand the "gun culture" here in the UK although it is getting progressively worse here, especially here in Manchester with gang warfare and drive by shootings (sound like LA doesn't it!!!) Thinking back, I think it was Arthur's gun the lad was shooting!!!!!
Cheers
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 18:57:28
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yes I probably am...struggle to understand the "gun culture" here in the UK although it is getting progressively worse here, especially here in Manchester with gang warfare and drive by shootings (sound like LA doesn't it!!!) Thinking back, I think it was Arthur's gun the lad was shooting!!!!!
Cheers
KD: Hey SDO - yep, his gun, and his cop killer, armour piercing "dum dum" bullets were also found in his house. Even if he didn't "pull the trigger", that still makes him a multiple repeat, violent felon, in possession of an illegal weapon and illegal ammunition. Which of course spelled big trouble for Arthur. |
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ed the bear
Fourth Love
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 06:09:44
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This conversation prompted me to read Hoskyns' account of the night the gun was fired. The way that it reads, this guy Doug Thomas was rummaging through the closet in Arthur's girlfriend's apartment, found the gun, had no idea it was real and loaded, brought it into the the living room and pulled the trigger. Now even though Mr. Thomas was from New Zealand, and possibly had no comprehension of the "gun culture" this all seems sort of improbable. You non-US folks can tell better than I, but if you found a gun in an American friend's closet, would you be that naive?
Of course it was bull**** for Arthur to be put away for such a long time, even if he pulled the trigger, but my guess is that Mr. Thomas was trying to cover for Arthur.
Which tells us what a fine, loyal friend Arthur had. Which also tells us something about him.
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Arnstein
Fifth Love
Norway
340 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 08:04:36
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| But what were the gun fired at? Something outside the house? |
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scully
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
217 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 12:26:25
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I believe it was fired into the air.
Not much point in speculating over this incident -- pretty clearly Arthur was given a 'punishment' sentence, probably because he pleaded not guilty, and refused to kow tow to the system.
David Crosby (a contemporary of Arthurs with a much lesser talent IMHO) was busted in TEXAS for heroin, crack, illegal possesion of a concealed weapon (a .45) and driving under the influence and he was sentenced to 'rehab'. His failure to complete that then lead him to serve all of nine months in jail...
Interesting to see how equally the US justice system applies. I can't see much difference in these cases, or these men, both talented musicians with substance problems and a taste for weapons, or maybe I'm missing something obvious....... |
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 19:31:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnstein
But what were the gun fired at? Something outside the house?
KD: Over the head of his next door neighbor apparently who
had the audacity to complain about Arthur's stereo being too
loud. Let's see the charges again shall we ?
# 1: Reckless discharge of a fire arm in a residential neighborhood
# 2: Attempted murder (? - not sure if he was charged with this)
# 3: Being a convicted felon and ex con, in possesion of an illegal fire arm
# 4: Being a convicted felon and ex con in possesion of armor piercing, illegal "dum dum" bullets.
Sounds like a big problem for Arthur, who I think at that point had already served at least 2 other prison terms in the '70's and or '80s. Can't really compare that to Crosby's run ins with the law.
Free the sentences ! |
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kdion11
Old Love
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 19:35:34
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[quote]Originally posted by ed the bear
This conversation prompted me to read Hoskyns' account of the night the gun was fired. The way that it reads, this guy Doug Thomas was rummaging through the closet in Arthur's girlfriend's apartment, found the gun, had no idea it was real and loaded, brought it into the the living room and pulled the trigger. Now even though Mr. Thomas was from New Zealand, and possibly had no comprehension of the "gun culture" this all seems sort of improbable. You non-US folks can tell better than I, but if you found a gun in an American friend's closet, would you be that naive?
Of course it was bull**** for Arthur to be put away for such a long time, even if he pulled the trigger, but my guess is that Mr. Thomas was trying to cover for Arthur.
Which tells us what a fine, loyal friend Arthur had. Which also tells us something about him.
KD: Hey Ed, being from NZ, I can tell you that hand guns, ANY hand guns are illegal. This weapon could not have been Doug's, and it's pretty obvious (to the jury, judge and the district attorny at the trial) that they concurred. I think Arthur's long criminal history had everything to do with his hard core sentence - these were hardly "trumped up charges".
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John9
Old Love
United Kingdom
2154 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 01:10:07
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| In a recent radio interview, Joan Plowright was asked about the darker side of her late husband, Laurence Olivier. She replied that a true genius often carries the curse of being "attended by demons". I have always believed this to be the case with Arthur - and what happened back in 1996 would seem to fit entirely into a pattern of erratic and self destructive behaviour - it was just that the consequences were much greater that time. But I am convinced that it was that same strange, turbulent energy that had given us 'Forever Changes'so many years before. As is well known, Arthur played on the irony of the lyrics to 'The Red Telephone' for all it was worth during those triumphant return performances. I think that on the original recording the way the borrowed lyrics from Peter Weiss's 1963 play 'Marat/Sade' are adapted makes the end of that song Love's all time high point. The Marquis de Sade - now there's someone who was well and truly attended by demons - and he did a bit of a stretch too - 32 years according to Wikepedia! |
Edited by - John9 on 24/08/2007 10:26:40 |
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scully
Fourth Love
United Kingdom
217 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 12:42:30
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quote:
Originally posted by kdion11
quote:
Originally posted by Arnstein
But what were the gun fired at? Something outside the house?
KD: Over the head of his next door neighbor apparently who
had the audacity to complain about Arthur's stereo being too
loud. Let's see the charges again shall we ?
# 1: Reckless discharge of a fire arm in a residential neighborhood
# 2: Attempted murder (? - not sure if he was charged with this)
# 3: Being a convicted felon and ex con, in possesion of an illegal fire arm
# 4: Being a convicted felon and ex con in possesion of armor piercing, illegal "dum dum" bullets.
Sounds like a big problem for Arthur, who I think at that point had already served at least 2 other prison terms in the '70's and or '80s. Can't really compare that to Crosby's run ins with the law.
Free the sentences !
You come on like a lawyer ('lets see the charges again') but you don't really know what you're talking about. Even the prosecutors would have balked at a charge of attempted murder.
Arthur had served time before (actually for violating parole) he subsequently stated that he had pled guilty to something he hadn't done, to avoid risking a more serious sentence, but obviously couldn't comply with his parole.
He denied firing the gun that night, and gunpowder residue tests taken that night were negative. Had he pled guilty, like a nice ex-con he would have got NINE MONTHS in jail, the fact is the sentence he received was way out of proportion to the crime, because he chose to go to trial, denied the charges and generally behaved like an innocent man would. He got punished for that.
Arthur was flawed (aren't we all) and made some bad choices. He had substance abuse problems. He shouldn't have had a gun in the house.
But is the subtext of your post is that he intended to kill his neighbour (for having the nerve to complain) then go on some 'armour piercing' rampage? I don't think so.
Don't forget, in the end the court itself agreed that he'd been railroaded:
The court reversed Arthur's conviction, citing misconduct by the prosecutor and ineffective assistance by his trial attorney. According to Jeffery Anderson, a legal reporter for the LA Daiy Journal, ..."when it was over, Lee walked out a free man, pleading no contest to the shooting charge and having served more than the required time for the possession charge". "[The law] allows a defendant to plead to something he didn't do if it's in his best interests," Hirsch (Arthur's lawyer) said later. "In Arthur's case, the option of going to trial is just too uncertain, particularly with so much going on in his life musically." Also, Arthur was granted the opportunity to return to court in six months and have the original charge reduced to a misdemeanor.
Had this NOT happened, Arthur may have died in jail, rather than have played all those wonderful shows. |
Edited by - scully on 24/08/2007 14:32:57 |
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