| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Joe Morris |
Posted - 08/08/2012 : 23:21:47
So what do people think of the Love tracks that Johnnys working on
that they've heard him do live
What are peoples takes on what Loves been doing in LA of late
Just wish Arthur were still around.. There are songs I love by Arthur that were never released - stuff like "Thats the way it goes"
"Could've been you" - cut for the New Rose album I believe. I doubt if even Real to Reel will see release though - no, not even by High Moon!
(Wheres Black Beauty? anyone?! Bueller?!)
the fact that David Angel is involved with the project.. oh, my! its like when Tolkien fans learned that the Hobbit was gonna be in the hands of Peter Jackson; you knew everything was gonna be alright!
(I know lemonadekid HATES the Tolkien films, but I think they're a good translation)
Baby Lemonade playing on it, and if Stuart contributes..
I could see a follow up to Changes being very well received, especially with the strings
I understand that Arthur was working on a follow up to Forever Changes before his arrest with the New Zealander; it was not to be, apparently, though the original band was ready to reform at the time (Love Storys release on Rhino)
Gotta have strings (David Angel, check), gotta have a decent band (Baby Lemonade, check)
new Love music is always a good thing
In retrospect, Four Sail suffered because it followed Forever Changes. How a Love band with Bryan/Arthur/Johnny/Kenny would've fared after Forever Changes if they'd held it together is a moot point. They felt there was no point in continuing as clearly Elektra wasn't holding up their end (with regard to promotion) (the record made it to a high of 154) and getting to sign with MCA was clearly a no go even with the benefits (owning their own songs copyright, better distribution of their records)
Elektra wasn't gonna let them go, and didn't (Four Sail was a grab of the best tracks on Jac Holzman's part to fulfill the album contract
I think a Forever Changes follow up would have to elaborate on themes and suggestions of Lees on that album (on war, the self in a life being lived and ones reaction to it (Facing each day with a smile)
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| waxburn |
Posted - 25/11/2012 : 19:37:00
to this day nobody know exactly which songs the WC are on, that how good they were, learning the material not in months but probably in a couple of hours.
i would take the kenny takes 3 AL songs and turns into 1 with a grain of salt. |
| rsdmems |
Posted - 25/11/2012 : 14:58:09
quote:
...Forever Changes would not be the greatest album ever without ALL of Love's members. Not only did Bryan contribute TWO essential songs, but also added his creative tension that Arthur needed to reach his heights. We also would not have those amazing guitar solos by Johnny, or Kenny's influential & progressive bass lines. Michael's drumming is one of the first parts I notice--perfect...as Arthur noted.
And we wouldn't even have "You Set The Scene" at ALL!! It was created by Kenny's arrangement and combining of three of Arthur's compositions that we have one of the greatest Love songs period.
It's safe to say "You Set The Scene" would not exist without all of Love.
Yes, those are all fair points! Ironically, though, my favorite MSW drumming and Johnny lead guitar riff are on "Your Mind and We Belong Together" (ironic because it was their swan song). In fact, after "You Set the Scene" that's my favorite Love song.
P.S I rank "Forever Changes" as one of the six greatest rock albums ever, along with "Quadrophenia," "Who's Next" and Springsteen's first three. Within those six I really can't come up with a "#1" because at that level of brilliance it just comes down to the mood I happen to be in.
P.P.S. It becomes easy to round out my "Top 10" if I can include "Best of" collections (Bowie, Hendrix, Dylan, the Beatles... and Cream for an honorable mention at #11), but on an album-by-album basis all of the latter musicians-- unlike my six favorites-- often had too many "throwaway songs" mixed in with their brilliant ones. |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 25/11/2012 : 14:35:57
quote:
Originally posted by rsdmems
quote:
...Bryan (who contributed MUCH more than a couple decent songs to the creative genius of Love--who were never quite the same after that dynamic duo broke up...a fact!)
Lemonade,
I don't want to be lumped in with the real negative guy ('cause I'm not!), but Bryan and Arthur (unlike, say, Jagger and Richards) seemed to write completely independently, and as I recall even Johnny (in the documentary) said something about most of Bryan's songs being too much about 'rainbows and candy canes and unicorns' (or something like that). Thus, I don't think that you can tie Arthur's dearth of post-Love songwriting to the demise of the group itself-- in fact, perhaps Arthur felt his muse deserting him and that was one of the reasons he broke up the group. There are very, very few successful rock composers who wrote more than two excellent albums plus one masterpiece (as Arthur did) and I can't think of ANY who did their BEST work past the age of 30 (although admittedly, Arthur wasn't yet close to 30 when the group broke up). Do you think that "Forever Changes" would have been less wonderful if Arthur and "The Wrecking Crew" had done the whole thing? I suspect not, although I'm not a musician so I don't say that with any certainty.
I don't lump you there my friend...my point is that Arthur brought back Love AFTER giving the Wrecking Crew a shot...they were too sterile, no edge.
I also believe, my opinion!, that Forever Changes would not be the greatest album ever without ALL of Love's members. Not only did Bryan contribute TWO essential songs, but also added his creative tension that Arthur needed to reach his heights. We also would not have those amazing guitar solos by Johnny, or Kenny's influential & progressive bass lines. Michael's drumming is one of the first parts I notice--perfect...as Arthur noted.
And we wouldn't even have "You Set The Scene" at ALL!! It was created by Kenny's arrangement and combining of three of Arthur's compositions that we have one of the greatest Love songs period.
It's safe to say "You Set The Scene" would not exist without all of Love.
Love would not be Love without LOVE!
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| waxburn |
Posted - 24/11/2012 : 00:45:32
quote:
Originally posted by rsdmems
>its a book where the author doesnt seem to remember suing AL but does remember buying a carton of Orange Juice for him... if you read Snoops interview... i think youll find that AL wasnt the only jerk.<<
This too is unfair to MSW, as he takes full responsibility (along with the other band members) for why Arthur had to hire The Wrecking Crew, fully admitting that the guys had spent so much time drugging and so little rehearsing that they were woefully unprepared for the recording sessions. Re. MSW's post-Love career, it's pretty obvious that Arthur thought he was a great drummer, as he went out of his way to recruit him into the band. I do feel, though, that it would have been interesting for MSW to name some of the post-Love bands that supposedly tried to recruit him. The only one he mentions specifically is Neil Diamond, but he alludes to all kinds of other supposedly great opportunities without ever "naming names." Is it because none of those other bands went anywhere?
LOL if you think that he walked out of a ND gig, where he would have made more money in a few months than all the LOVE royalties ever, then please note i have bridge in
brooklyn ready to be shipped to you. yea im sure there will be no record of any recruitment just vague generalities that cant be checked out.
My understanding is that Al thought him to be a good studio drummer, not a good live one. besides, he had a limited pool to choose from.
AL records, post or pre FC are all out there for anyone to check them out. |
| rsdmems |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 23:25:08
>its a book where the author doesnt seem to remember suing AL but does remember buying a carton of Orange Juice for him... if you read Snoops interview... i think youll find that AL wasnt the only jerk.<<
This too is unfair to MSW, as he takes full responsibility (along with the other band members) for why Arthur had to hire The Wrecking Crew, fully admitting that the guys had spent so much time drugging and so little rehearsing that they were woefully unprepared for the recording sessions. Re. MSW's post-Love career, it's pretty obvious that Arthur thought he was a great drummer, as he went out of his way to recruit him into the band. I do feel, though, that it would have been interesting for MSW to name some of the post-Love bands that supposedly tried to recruit him. The only one he mentions specifically is Neil Diamond, but he alludes to all kinds of other supposedly great opportunities without ever "naming names." Is it because none of those other bands went anywhere? |
| DaveyTee |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 22:59:22
quote:
Originally posted by Signed RWHow hard is it to realize that nobody who even visits this board, let alone ever posts on it, is not already a major, major fan of Arthur Lee and his remarkable musical achievements, both with and without the "original" band?
Not entirely true in my case. I'm a fan of Love, the band, not just any individual member of it. And I'm afraid I can't really describe myself as a "major" admirer of anything much that was recorded after the "original band" split up.
DT
But I Can't Understand
Why We Let Someone Else
Rule Our Land
Cap in Hand. |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 22:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by rsdmems
quote:
the MSW book is a screed against arthur, reader beware, in which AL is the big bad wolf and the other members are innocents
Hey, I literally JUST read the book (this week-- I found a clean used copy on Amazon) and this is really unfair to MSW. If I were to sum up the book in one sentence, it would be:
"Arthur was the undisputed principal songwriter and leader of "Love" but a lot times he acted like a real jerk."
I don't even think Arthur himself would dispute that. In addition to that, the book had lots of great anecdotal stories that often had nothing to do with Arthur... I highly recommend it!
yea, well, like i stated before, its a book where the author doesnt seem to remember suing AL but does remember buying a carton of Orange Juice for him. you figure.
i just find it unsettling how he has the other members of Love speak in baby talk.
if you read Snoops interview ( if it hasnt been erased ) i think youll find that AL wasnt the only jerk. but of course, we may not be allowed to read it. we may need a priest or something to interpret it. |
| rsdmems |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:37:45
quote:
the MSW book is a screed against arthur, reader beware, in which AL is the big bad wolf and the other members are innocents
Hey, I literally JUST read the book (this week-- I found a clean used copy on Amazon) and this is really unfair to MSW. If I were to sum up the book in one sentence, it would be:
"Arthur was the undisputed principal songwriter and leader of "Love" but a lot times he acted like a real jerk."
I don't even think Arthur himself would dispute that. In addition to that, the book had lots of great anecdotal stories that often had nothing to do with Arthur... I highly recommend it!
|
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:20:19
quote:
Originally posted by rsdmems
quote:
...Bryan (who contributed MUCH more than a couple decent songs to the creative genius of Love--who were never quite the same after that dynamic duo broke up...a fact!)
Lemonade,
I don't want to be lumped in with the real negative guy ('cause I'm not!), but Bryan and Arthur (unlike, say, Jagger and Richards) seemed to write completely independently, and as I recall even Johnny (in the documentary) said something about most of Bryan's songs being too much about 'rainbows and candy canes and unicorns' (or something like that). Thus, I don't think that you can tie Arthur's dearth of post-Love songwriting to the demise of the group itself-- in fact, perhaps Arthur felt his muse deserting him and that was one of the reasons he broke up the group. There are very, very few successful rock composers who wrote more than two excellent albums plus one masterpiece (as Arthur did) and I can't think of ANY who did their BEST work past the age of 30 (although admittedly, Arthur wasn't yet close to 30 when the group broke up). Do you think that "Forever Changes" would have been less wonderful if Arthur and "The Wrecking Crew" had done the whole thing? I suspect not, although I'm not a musician so I don't say that with any certainty.
good point, of course FC would have been just as good with the WC, with Bryan being brought in to overdub some vocals. |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:11:44
quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy Craig
Waxburn Ive never posted here before >lol<
What does that mean ?
Does the fact that Ive never posted here make any difference to what I had to say ?.........Yes ? No ? Does it really matter ?
What does matter is this place used to be a positive place about the music of LOVE.
I finally posted due to my frustration over the rerelease of Black Beauty and Two Sides...... both of which have had two full reviews in the British press but still no sign of a proper release ,and the spitefull negativity on here of which theres no reason.
Sorry and I apologize for not introducing my self properly .
Today I,m a Flamenco guitar player but in my youth a member of a couple of very good local garage bands .
Oh to be twenty again and playing our extended medley jam of Feel awhole lot better, Hey Joe,My Flash on You.Then to stop dead the moshing and play to a still and opened mouthed audience She Comes In Colours.
We were a good band but what we were doing was reproduceing adequete version of Arthurs great songs and Loves great arrangements ,and god did they come through load and clear.
"You I,ll Be Following" yes they did "Message To Pretty" .Thats where I started playing harp.
Remember Forever Changes was a top thirty LP in UK
Dispite playing Spanish Guitar I still have my old Telecaster and amp and would love to form a West Coast type band with any forum members interested in playing the music of THE BYRDS,BUFALLO SPRINGFIELD,MOBY GRAPE,etc .........and of course LOVE.
Lets keep music postive , the music scene is bad enough as it is here inthe UK
As a better man than me sang "Live and Let Live"
Craig Hertfordshire
Love and Music
you have but one single post and are giving advice as to how people should post and conduct themselves here? ive been here for many years and havent had the nerve to that yet.
its no great mystery whats going on here, a couple of former members of the group, who have had less than stellar post FC careers have enlisted a few cronies to lower AL and rise themselves up. the only problem is that theres nothing to elevate, they gripe about AL post FC career, when i cant a single record any of the rest of the group were on post FC. are these facts, or are am i making it up?
on that MSW book he talks about turning down a neil diamond gig.
right there i quit reading.
the whole thing is ridiculous
I hope the guy who was going to karate chop me to death, while riding a skateboard, isnt brought back. i think he was a Baby Lemonade fan though, another story for another day.
as far as your band with the forum members, i got a name for you guys how about the Westside Racketeers? |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:06:50
quote:
Originally posted by Signed RW
Hey Craig, thanks very much for your excellent, refreshing posts, the contents of which make it clear that there truly are folks here who are really a "voice of reason," as opposed to those who are self-declared as such, but by point of example are about as far from it as possibly imaginable. That would be those who might be considered a "voice of reason" only in Rod Serling's "Twilight Zone" or in Superman's "Bizarro World." It is so unfortunate that such a tiny number of noxious (and obnoxious) individuals here have managed to drive away former contibutors to these forums such as Johnny Echols, Michael Suart-Ware, and John Einarson, the former two of whom were actually there, each key particpants in the making of the music that drew us all here in the first place, and that keeps us coming back, and the latter, an accomplished, published, real author, as opposed to a fan with a dream of writing book, but no clue as to how to make it happen beyond said dream. John Einarson managed to locate Johnny Echols (and many, many others) without "hiring a detective," and I would venture to guess that the Arthur Lee/Love story as presented in his book may be the closest we will ever get to the actual, and the factual history of what really did take place, based on first hand accounts from people who were there, as opposed to ideas and concepts formed by fans who had listened to the records and read those reprints of not exactly always fact-based stories in "The Castle" over and over, eventually coming to the Bizarro World conclusion that now, they understood and knew everything. Anyone wonder why it is that we no longer have input from those like John Einarson, or Michael Stuart-Ware, or Johnny Echols here? Surely it couldn't be that they ultimately tired of having their integrity attacked and of being repeatedly personally insulted by individuals here, who, guess what?, were more than likely not there to witness things first hand. How hard is it to realize that nobody who even visits this board, let alone ever posts on it, is not already a major, major fan of Arthur Lee and his remarkable musical achievements, both with and without the "original" band? So in what alternate universe has this site ever been a place where people come to in any way bad mouth or denigrate Arthur or his accomplishments? So we now need a self-appointed Don Quixote, clearly incapable of being remotely able to just agree to disagree, to not only tilt at those windmills on our behalf, but also, far more sadly, to effectively cause former contributors to the site to simply decide to no longer participate? Thanks so much for that; really appreciate you looking out for us. How about this; if we agree to acknowledge the one and only, loyal and true, ever vigilant defender of Arthur Lee, might we then please just give it a rest?
Whoa settle down. no 1, its online, that kevin delaney was searching for JE, prior to AL bringing him back to the scence, to talk to him about the book he was writing, and hired a private eye to find him and he couldnt. you can search on the web, but hurry up before they have it erased. i didnt make it up, and if people want to search theyll find some more interesting facts there.
i am the voice of reason, none of you guys are. i am.
the MSW book is a screed against arthur, reader beware, in which AL is the big bad wolf and the other members are innocents,even give to baby talk. its an unsettling book. thats my take on it.
has anyone heard the bootleg Last Wall of the Castle? Where AL is conducting business?
as to all who wont post here anymore because open season on AL is officialy closed. well see ya dont wanna be ya. they obviously lack facts to formulate their posts. |
| SignedRW |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 20:50:54
Hey Craig, thanks very much for your excellent, refreshing posts, the contents of which make it clear that there truly are folks here who are really a "voice of reason," as opposed to those who are self-declared as such, but by point of example are about as far from it as possibly imaginable. That would be those who might be considered a "voice of reason" only in Rod Serling's "Twilight Zone" or in Superman's "Bizarro World." It is so unfortunate that such a tiny number of noxious (and obnoxious) individuals here have managed to drive away former contibutors to these forums such as Johnny Echols, Michael Suart-Ware, and John Einarson, the former two of whom were actually there, each key particpants in the making of the music that drew us all here in the first place, and that keeps us coming back, and the latter, an accomplished, published, real author, as opposed to a fan with a dream of writing book, but no clue as to how to make it happen beyond said dream. John Einarson managed to locate Johnny Echols (and many, many others) without "hiring a detective," and I would venture to guess that the Arthur Lee/Love story as presented in his book may be the closest we will ever get to the actual, and the factual history of what really did take place, based on first hand accounts from people who were there, as opposed to ideas and concepts formed by fans who had listened to the records and read those reprints of not exactly always fact-based stories in "The Castle" over and over, eventually coming to the Bizarro World conclusion that now, they understood and knew everything. Anyone wonder why it is that we no longer have input from those like John Einarson, or Michael Stuart-Ware, or Johnny Echols here? Surely it couldn't be that they ultimately tired of having their integrity attacked and of being repeatedly personally insulted by individuals here, who, guess what?, were more than likely not there to witness things first hand. How hard is it to realize that nobody who even visits this board, let alone ever posts on it, is not already a major, major fan of Arthur Lee and his remarkable musical achievements, both with and without the "original" band? So in what alternate universe has this site ever been a place where people come to in any way bad mouth or denigrate Arthur or his accomplishments? So we now need a self-appointed Don Quixote, clearly incapable of being remotely able to just agree to disagree, to not only tilt at those windmills on our behalf, but also, far more sadly, to effectively cause former contributors to the site to simply decide to no longer participate? Thanks so much for that; really appreciate you looking out for us. How about this; if we agree to acknowledge the one and only, loyal and true, ever vigilant defender of Arthur Lee, might we then please just give it a rest? |
| Grumpy Craig |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 18:23:55
Waxburn Ive never posted here before >lol<
What does that mean ?
Does the fact that Ive never posted here make any difference to what I had to say ?.........Yes ? No ? Does it really matter ?
What does matter is this place used to be a positive place about the music of LOVE.
I finally posted due to my frustration over the rerelease of Black Beauty and Two Sides...... both of which have had two full reviews in the British press but still no sign of a proper release ,and the spitefull negativity on here of which theres no reason.
Sorry and I apologize for not introducing my self properly .
Today I,m a Flamenco guitar player but in my youth a member of a couple of very good local garage bands .
Oh to be twenty again and playing our extended medley jam of Feel awhole lot better, Hey Joe,My Flash on You.Then to stop dead the moshing and play to a still and opened mouthed audience She Comes In Colours.
We were a good band but what we were doing was reproduceing adequete version of Arthurs great songs and Loves great arrangements ,and god did they come through load and clear.
"You I,ll Be Following" yes they did "Message To Pretty" .Thats where I started playing harp.
Remember Forever Changes was a top thirty LP in UK
Dispite playing Spanish Guitar I still have my old Telecaster and amp and would love to form a West Coast type band with any forum members interested in playing the music of THE BYRDS,BUFALLO SPRINGFIELD,MOBY GRAPE,etc .........and of course LOVE.
Lets keep music postive , the music scene is bad enough as it is here inthe UK
As a better man than me sang "Live and Let Live"
Craig Hertfordshire
Love and Music |
| rsdmems |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 16:50:55
quote:
...Bryan (who contributed MUCH more than a couple decent songs to the creative genius of Love--who were never quite the same after that dynamic duo broke up...a fact!)
Lemonade,
I don't want to be lumped in with the real negative guy ('cause I'm not!), but Bryan and Arthur (unlike, say, Jagger and Richards) seemed to write completely independently, and as I recall even Johnny (in the documentary) said something about most of Bryan's songs being too much about 'rainbows and candy canes and unicorns' (or something like that). Thus, I don't think that you can tie Arthur's dearth of post-Love songwriting to the demise of the group itself-- in fact, perhaps Arthur felt his muse deserting him and that was one of the reasons he broke up the group. There are very, very few successful rock composers who wrote more than two excellent albums plus one masterpiece (as Arthur did) and I can't think of ANY who did their BEST work past the age of 30 (although admittedly, Arthur wasn't yet close to 30 when the group broke up). Do you think that "Forever Changes" would have been less wonderful if Arthur and "The Wrecking Crew" had done the whole thing? I suspect not, although I'm not a musician so I don't say that with any certainty. |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 16:34:50
quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Thanks Grumpy...what a fine post. You have said what I've struggled to say in answer to the negative posts...perfectly. The strange thing is the "others" believe WE are the negative ones...so strange.
Michael is a friend of mine, and as fine, fair, & honest an individual as any I've known. He has no axe to grind. He has written his memoirs of his oWN experiences. They seem to match everyone from Love, including Arthur.
Michael sued for a very small sum for royalties due him, and the rest of the band--in response to a very strange & dysfunctional payment arrangement between Elektra & Arthur that was doomed to fail-- what musician can ever keep track of who's owed what in such circumstances.
No one loves Artur more than me (and US here!!!), and we all begged for the truth about the history of LoVE, debunking the myths....we got it from Arthur & Einarson in the amazing Diane Lee endorsed "Forever Changes", and from Michael's "Pegasus Carousel".
If anything, my (and I would guess "our") love & respect for Arthur has GROWN immensely due to the insights of Johnny, Michael, & the memoirs of Arthur, and the intensely detailed research of John Einarson.
Arthur overcame his demons to give us the best music ever--we don't love him less, but MUCH MUCH more, for the knowing of his struggles, and triumphs.
So let's get back to what matters. Here's to Michael, Johnny, Kenny, Bryan (who contributed MUCH more than a couple decent songs to the creative genius of Love--who were never quite the same after that dynamic duo broke up...a fact!), and especially to Arthur..the man behind all that is LOVE.
Here's to Love--what other Love line up do we conjure up when we hear the name, but Arthur, Bryan, Johnny, Kenny, Michael and Snoop...and for a while Teejay.
OH YEAH!!
Peace and LoVE!
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy
Arthur may have overcome his demons, but some of the other members havent.
When you see the phrase 'debunking of myths' when connected with Love its a signal that some interested parties want to replace the truth with nonsense. that has been my experience.
MSW wrote a book wherein Arthur is the classic bad guy, and the rest are little angels from heaven. At points, it reads as a comedy.
He wrote an entire book and not once mentioned he took Arthur to court. Enough said.
Maybe we shouldnt talk about Arthur at all on this forum, unless of course, unless we want to disrespect him.
We should instead concentrate on the other figures, and their music.
I think its obvious that all the former Love members have many friends here, representing. except for arthur, so i figure to do the right thing and be AL friend. represent. |
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