| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 20/06/2019 : 22:32:28
Johnny says LoVE's "mythical" Gethsemine will be released later this year!
Believe or not, as you will....
Uncut /May 2019
The Long-Lost Follow-up To Forever Changes
In the latest issue of Uncut (May 2019), Johnny Echols is asked about the long-lost follow-up to Forever Changes – Gethsemane (full title being Love in the Garden of Gethsemane).
Mention of the album has popped up in many an interview over the years. According to Echols, the album will finally see the light of day later this year.
In 1967, the recording sessions for Forever Changes yielded one additional completed track that was left off the album which is Wonder People (I Do Wonder) written by Arthur Lee. According to Echols, Forever Changes was originally planned as a double album with room for more songs from Bryan MacLean and himself. As MacLean is no longer with us, we may never know which songs of his were intended for the album. There was certainly enough material if you look at the tracks on his two solo albums (released in 1997 and 2000) that were written/demoed during the period 1966 to 1968. There was also a rumour of an aborted attempt by MacLean to record and release some of these songs as a ‘follow-up’ to Forever Changes in 1982.
We know more about the songs written by Echols that were meant for the album however, as he has talked about them in different interviews over the years:
“Gethsemane is a title I gave to a series of songs. When we made Forever Changes, it was to our understanding that it would be a double album. Jac Holzman, of course, has other views and disputes this… [But] Bryan and I wanted to do our songs and not just record Arthur’s songs. Contrary to what people thought, we were a group. There was no leader. We were all responsible for the music we played. Arthur wrote the lyrics. Bryan, Kenny and I with Michael Stuart, we put the lyrics to music. That’s how we created the Love sound. Not a dictator telling us: Do this and do that. We were individually talented. We felt that we should get more recognition for our input, so we were going to do a double album. When we get to the studio, we find out things have changed. The record company would no longer sponsor a double album, so we would do the second part of what became Forever Changes, later. That’s the album Your Mind And We Belong Together was supposed to be a part of, which never materialized. The songs I had written for that project, entitled Gethsemane are projects I’ve worked on over the years and re-written and re-written again. Finally, I’m in the studio now, there are friends of mine who are helping out, putting it together, which hopefully will be out sometime in 2019, along with a book I’m working on called Just Another Day In The Life. We’ll be releasing that sometime in 2019 and we’ll see what people think of it.” (source: Culture Sonar, Jan 2019)
“I was in constant communication with Andrew Sandoval, throughout the production of the [Forever Changes] Collector's Edition. Missing are slightly different versions of most of the songs, plus various out-takes. We are also left without the banter, the give and take between group members. Then we have two instrumentals, that I wrote, that were almost finished. One was a jazz tune called Search for the Fatherland. I could not play a decent guitar solo, even when doing take, after take. It just wasn't there. I felt so embarrassed when Hal Blaine and Don Randi kept trying to encourage me to "play". The other song was called Booker T., a soulful, up-beat instrumental that was just never finished. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to go in the studio and finish those songs.” (source: Freedom Man forum, 2008)
“The picture on the back of Forever Changes shows me with my hands clasped, that was meant to represent the betrayal of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. Bryan, Arthur and I all worked on songs, we were going to do Gethsemane after Forever Changes but the group split. I was working on it in the early to mid-70s, it will be recorded, some songs with the Baby Lemonade guys, some are already recorded. I’ve talked to several labels but I’m really trying to find a distribution deal then you can do it the way you want. [The predominant style of the album is] eclectic rock – it goes from where Forever Changes left off, [with] some ethnic sounds. It starts with a guy who falls in love with the devil's daughter and she steals his soul – it’s the search for his soul – he goes around the world looking for it and finds it! He cleanses his soul in the fire. [There are] 19 or 20 songs – it might be a 2 CD set or we’ll pick the best ones. They deal with immigration and things like that, there are issues covered that are as relevant now as they were then. At that time the big event was Vietnam and being drafted. I’m so grateful I wasn’t in it but the same issues are around today with Iraq and so on. So many people backtracked, and there’s resonance for today.” (source: Torbenskott forum, 2005)
Like and follow: facebook@loveforeverchanges
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 24/01/2020 : 12:49:35
Hmmm..."Later this year" has come and gone. Why am I not surprised. Sigh...
Maybe in 2020?
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| lemonade kid |
Posted - 02/11/2019 : 13:23:22
quote:
Originally posted by Ashrob
I think its a valid point LK. Was Four Sail and onwards Love or Arthur plus supporting musicians ?
Gethsemane must surely be a Johnny Echols solo album.
I love Johnny for carrying the Love torch all these years. And Baby Lem are a fantastic group of musicians. I wonder if it will be "Gethsemane" by Love Revisited featuring Johnny Echols?
I agree also that Love after Forever Changes was actually Arthur Lee with a varying cast of backing musicians, supporting Arthur's concepts--really could have been credited as just Arthur Lee, solo.
LoVE with Arthur, Johnny, Bryan, Kenny, Michael, with Snoop and Tjay were a complete band who took the skeletons of Arthur's songs and transformed them into fully formed songs by the Love, not Arthur Lee & Love (while not forgetting the immeasurable impact of Bryan, as a muse and catalyst for Arthur, and writing some indispensable songs himself). Many of the songs should have been credited to all the Love band, or as Lee/MacLean, who were as much a "team" as Lennon McCartney or Jagger/Richards: always better together than apart.
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| Ashrob |
Posted - 01/11/2019 : 19:53:07
I think its a valid point LK. Was Four Sail and onwards Love or Arthur plus supporting musicians ?
Gethsemane must surely be a Johnny Echols solo album.
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| lemonade kid |
Posted - 29/10/2019 : 20:41:15
quote:
Originally posted by otiselevator
Well this is news indeed. I always suspected Johnny was teasing us a bit when he mentioned Gethsemane. It seems not. Good to hear David Angel is involved too. Having said that, Forever Changes is one tough act to follow....
Impossible to follow without Arthur, Bryan, Kenny, Michael...but let's hope it is a good one still. Johnny is inspiring and really great, but Johnny & Baby Lem does not Love make. I'm not being nasty. Really, I'm not. I hope for the best. I'm just sayin'...
________________________________________________
The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| otiselevator |
Posted - 24/09/2019 : 17:42:13
Well this is news indeed. I always suspected Johnny was teasing us a bit when he mentioned Gethsemane. It seems not. Good to hear David Angel is involved too. Having said that, Forever Changes is one tough act to follow.... |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 23/08/2019 : 22:18:08
quote:
Originally posted by Ashrob
Included in the first edition of The Castle were the rumours of Gethsemane.
An Electra Sound Engineer confirmed the following tracklist that was to be the substance of the album:
Side One
Your Mind and We Belong Together (Lee) 4:22
Peaceful Times Again (Lee) 2:49
If Only For A Moment (MacLean) 3:36
Up Town ‘N Down (Lee) 2:50
Sanctuary (Lee/Echols) 3:35
Side Two
Laughing Stock (Lee) 2:33
Freeway Flyers (Lee) 3:33
Sixth Cents (Lee) 4:30
The Outlaw In Me (Lee/MacLean) 5:05
The Time Has Come For Some Counting To Be Done (Lee) 3:42
Good to hear from you, Ashrob. Cheers and thanks for the track listing. We can only hope that there will be some more unearthed Arthur Lee vocals too.
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| Ashrob |
Posted - 21/08/2019 : 19:38:39
Included in the first edition of The Castle were the rumours of Gethsemane.
An Electra Sound Engineer confirmed the following tracklist that was to be the substance of the album:
Side One
Your Mind and We Belong Together (Lee) 4:22
Peaceful Times Again (Lee) 2:49
If Only For A Moment (MacLean) 3:36
Up Town ‘N Down (Lee) 2:50
Sanctuary (Lee/Echols) 3:35
Side Two
Laughing Stock (Lee) 2:33
Freeway Flyers (Lee) 3:33
Sixth Cents (Lee) 4:30
The Outlaw In Me (Lee/MacLean) 5:05
The Time Has Come For Some Counting To Be Done (Lee) 3:42 |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 21/08/2019 : 18:11:26
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
I wonder if the 2 instrumentals Echols tried to record during FC will be on the record
And the last singles, post-Forever Changes, that I believe were said to be meant for Gethsemane...?
________________________________________________
The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| Joe Morris |
Posted - 20/08/2019 : 19:06:30
I wonder if the 2 instrumentals Echols tried to record during FC will be on the record |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 02/07/2019 : 14:09:36
quote:
Originally posted by Kula John
Wow, I really hope this happens. I didn't realize David Angel is involved.
That would be the icing...just like on Forever Changes, David's input on arrangements would be invaluable to Gethsemane's success!
I for one, think it will (I hope) be quite good. Johnny was overshadowed by Arthur and Bryan but by all accounts, Johnny is quite a good singer and songwriter too it seems.
I wonder if any of Bryan's material still exists or will be included... as the abundance of songs by Arthur, Bryan AND Johnny was the reason that Forever Changes was originally planned as a double LP.
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The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| Kula John |
Posted - 01/07/2019 : 09:32:24
Wow, I really hope this happens. I didn't realize David Angel is involved.
----------------------
For the time that I've been given's such a little while and the things that I must do consist of more than style....
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| lemonade kid |
Posted - 30/06/2019 : 14:45:18
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Morris
was reading in an interview in a fairly recent Castle that someone was kind enough to photograph and pass along to me (in issue 25? I'm guessing
that Kenny contributed as well to the album
I don't know how I feel about a Love album with no Arthur Lee. I'm not expecting any of the songs written for Gethesemene to be written by the man, as from what I understand its leftover songs from what was gonna be a double album (which ended as Forever Changes?
so we'll see - glad David Angell is involved with the project! hes very much the unsung hero on the Forever Changes album, never really got his due, but he is very much LOVEd! (heh!
Yes, indeed, Joe.
________________________________________________
The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| Joe Morris |
Posted - 29/06/2019 : 21:59:45
was reading in an interview in a fairly recent Castle that someone was kind enough to photograph and pass along to me (in issue 25? I'm guessing
that Kenny contributed as well to the album
I don't know how I feel about a Love album with no Arthur Lee. I'm not expecting any of the songs written for Gethesemene to be written by the man, as from what I understand its leftover songs from what was gonna be a double album (which ended as Forever Changes?
so we'll see - glad David Angell is involved with the project! hes very much the unsung hero on the Forever Changes album, never really got his due, but he is very much LOVEd! (heh! |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 20/06/2019 : 22:42:54
Good friend Michael (Stuart) told me that Johnny has actually been recording tracks for "Gethsemane" over a period of a few years, and that Johnny had asked Michael to join in the sessions. Whether that came to fruition I don't know for sure, but that there is an actual "Gethsemane" being recorded is a sure thing.
Whether we'll see it soon is another question. Anyone who has contact with Johnny, maybe you can ask that million dollar question.
When will we see it??
________________________________________________
The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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| lemonade kid |
Posted - 20/06/2019 : 22:33:54
From Culture Sonar / January 21, 2019
A Piece of Love: An Interview with Johnny Echols - CultureSonar
A Piece Of Love: An Interview With Johnny Echols
Q: Would you care to tell Culture Sonar about “Gethsemane”?
A: “Gethsemane” is a title I gave to a series of songs. When we made “Forever Changes,” it was to our understanding that it would be a double album. Jac Holzman, of course, has other views and disputes this… [But] Bryan and I wanted to do our songs and not just record Arthur’s songs. Contrary to what people thought, we were a group. There was no leader. We were all responsible for the music we played. Arthur wrote the lyrics. Bryan, Kenny and I with Michael Stuart, we put the lyrics to music. That’s how we created the Love sound. Not a dictator telling us: Do this and do that. We were individually talented. We felt that we should get more recognition for our input, so we were going to do a double album. When we get to the studio, we find out things have changed. The record company would no longer sponsor a double album, so we would do the second part of what became “Forever Changes” later. That’s the album “Your Mind And We Belong Together” was supposed to be a part of, which never materialized. The songs I had written for that project, entitled “Gethsemane” are projects I’ve worked on over the years and re-written and re-written again. Finally, I’m in the studio now, there are friends of mine who are helping out, putting it together, which hopefully will be out sometime in 2019, along with a book I’m working on called Just Another Day In The Life. We’ll be releasing that some time in 2019 and we’ll see what people think of it.
________________________________________________
The actual writing of a song usually comes in the form of a realisation.
I can't contrive a song. – GENE CLARK
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