| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 28/10/2012 : 15:36:25
This was from Johnny Echols, who has kindly consented [for me] to share his words with you all...
I hope you all will give Johnny your best wishes and kind words here, especially for his improved health & our great hopes that Johnny will soon return to studio & finish Gethsemane - for Love fans everywhere.
Scott, I've re-written the post a bit, so you may feel free to share any and all of it with our friends on Torben's, and Ed's board...
Hi Scott, thank you for your kind words, I hope everything is well with you. I've decided to take a hiatus from Torben's site, for a while. Primarily due to having found myself in the rather awkward position of arguing with people I do not know, over details of my own life.
I started seriously thinking about it after a particularly aggressive response concerning points mentioned in John's book. A couple of individuals took issue with statements in the book, and accused me, and others of engaging in some kind of revisionism simply for stating the facts as we knew them.,
This is their absolute right, which I defend without equivocation. Though human nature is such that one often feels the need to step-in and say "hey that's not true, or this is what really happened." I found myself in that position. After giving it considerable thought, I realized I do not want to interfere with the dynamics, or the nature of these discussions. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and should feel free to express them without fear of being told they are wrong by a band member. The freedom to speak one's mind (uncensored), is what makes this such a great board. So I concluded it's probably best for all concerned, that I stand down...
Arthur was my lifelong friend, and I would never step on his accomplishments, I am very proud of them, but I know, from many many conversations with him over the years, that he felt trapped under the weight of expectations - that he just could not fulfill. Arthur was a brilliant, world class poet and wordsmith, and his vocal abilities were without peer. He had a unique gift, that transcended time and space. That being said, Bryan was his muse, and the other group members were his musical sketch pad. He needed the creative environment this arrangement provided, to function at his highest level. Without it, (in my opinion) he wrote and recorded some very good songs...just not great songs.
Arthur possessed, an incredible ear, he knew what sounded right, which ideas fit, and more importantly-which ones didn't. He also had the ability to hone in on the precise point where disparate bits of music, or guys sitting around noodling, had become the foundation of a song. He trusted the original group member's judgement, and ability so much that he felt secure giving them complete freedom to interpret, transform, and play his basic idea's the way [they] thought best. He would only offer a suggestion if he thought something wasn't right for the song, or could be played better.
Most of the problems began [after] Love became successful, sycophants and hangers-on began to insinuate themselves into group dynamics. Which created tension within the group, the environment began to change-and not for the better But whether because of ego, or hubris, Arthur chose to allow this situation to fester until it became untenable for the rest of the members. These outsiders, and enabler's helped create an atmosphere that ultimately lead him down the road to self destruction.
.
Their actions, and interference were the impetus for a drug addiction that lasted until the day he died. He used prodigious amounts of drugs long after it was no longer "cool," because they helped him cope with circumstances he was unable to control. Cocaine allowed him to continue to live in a world he knew wasn't based in reality. He could not enjoy his own success because he always felt he had something to prove.
This, among other reasons is why I started giving interviews, and posting comments after years of silence, hoping to set the record straight, and maybe save my brothers life. Arthur's decade's long cocaine abuse, was the direct cause of his downfall, and ultimate death, the human mind and body can only endure so much abuse.
I absolutely intend to continue that dialogue, and while I've temporarily closed one door, I've opened another. I have two facebook pages with thousands of friends and we have lively, but respectful discussions. Anyone can post songs in real time and discuss the songs, again in real time, making for a lively give and take. Michael Stuart-Ware even joins in from time to time. A few weeks ago we had the topic What's your favorite Love lyric, and we got hundreds of responses. I've learned, much to my surprise that along with our faithful friends from back in the day, there is a whole new generation of Love fans eager to discuss our music. One page is under Johnny Echols, and the other is Love revisited. Members of Torben's site or Ed's are welcome, just go to either or both sites, and send a friend request. I often refer friends from those pages to check out Torben's site as [the] place for in-depth discussions concerning the group Love.
PS: The recording sessions for Gethsemene are a bit more than half complete, and I am really pleased with the way the songs have developed. Sadly, (for personal reasons) I must put the project on hold for the time being, though I do plan to resume work on it as soon as it is feasible. Somehow life always finds a way to intervene, at the most inopportune times. At the moment I'm in the process of selling my home in Arizona, and moving back to the Los Angeles area - where my family resides. Recently, I've developed a couple of health issues that are consuming much of my time and energy... For the first time, I've been given serious cause to consider my own mortality, which is quite sobering to say the least. When we are young, we tend to find it impossible to imagine a world without us in it. With age we quickly learn we are not indispensable, the universe has its own agenda.
On a happier note, I would like to express my personal appreciation, to each and every one of the members of this board for the support you've given us - all these many years. You are absolutely responsible for keeping the music of this seminal, and gifted group of musicians alive... Without you, Love would be but a fading memory. We have had a fascinating journey, and I'm so proud of the music we created together. It has been my privilege to be a part of the group known as Love. Being able to call Arthur, Bryan, Kenny and Michael my friends, is something I will cherish forever. On behalf of my brothers, thank you, and I wish you all the best.
Thank you again Scott for your kind words and support; Johnny Echols
Thanks to johnny for his always kind and measured words that he has shared with us al over the years!
HERE'S TO YOUR GOOD HEALTH & BEST WISHES TO YOU & YOUR FAMILY, JOHNNY!
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 22:03:51
quote:
Originally posted by John9
Waxburn -
I would love to read sometime your thoughts on those things that this board is supposed to be about......the albums, the songs, personal encounters with the music and all the positive experiences. But I fear that if you continue in your present vein then you'll end up just driving people away. I do urge you to think carefully about all this.
you can search my posts. 
I didnt bring up Gethsemene or "Arthurs demons". Im more about the truth than going along with anyones game plan. |
| John9 |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:38:02
Waxburn -
I would love to read sometime your thoughts on those things that this board is supposed to be about......the albums, the songs, personal encounters with the music and all the positive experiences. But I fear that if you continue in your present vein then you'll end up just driving people away. I do urge you to think carefully about all this. |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:33:41
Of course not...but you seem to take issue with any truth about Arthur...I want to hear it all INCLUDING the boys in the band and I'm sure everyone else here knows I am balanced & fair....right guys?
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| waxburn |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 21:28:00
quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy
are trying to have the readership here believe that AL was the only one to have demons( aka drug issues)? that the rest only dabbled in drugs for a month or two and cleaned up forever? |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 23/11/2012 : 16:35:43
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| waxburn |
Posted - 19/11/2012 : 16:04:18
quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Foolish man...you don't like truth or the facts however kindly stated. S'ok. Now we know. If saying that all of Love, at one time or another, were involved in drugs is heresy, you need another board that deals in myths and sugarcoated tales of 'reality'. I for one am glad to have the true history of Love, and love Arthur all the more for overcoming his weaknesses (as we all have in us), and sharing his genius, his gift of music and Love. and his compassionate, giving side--a lesson for all.
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy
Dont play me, I didnt say that any member of Love didnt have drug problems i said all did, and that one is not so saintly to be publicly disrespecting Arthur about it. why doesnt he worry about himself, im sure those Gethsamne sessions are waiting.
|
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 19/11/2012 : 06:39:59
quote:
Originally posted by lemonade kid
Foolish man...you don't like truth or the facts however kindly stated. S'ok. Now we know. If saying that all of Love, at one time or another, were involved in drugs is heresy, you need another board that deals in myths and sugarcoated tales of 'reality'. I for one am glad to have the true history of Love, and love Arthur all the more for overcoming his weaknesses (as we all have in us), and sharing his genius, his gift of music and Love. and his compassionate, giving side--a lesson for all.
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy
No censorship...keep all your thoughts coming, fred & waxburn....forgot my self for a moment; in our love for Love emotions can run high.
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 19/11/2012 : 06:05:20
Foolish man...you don't like truth or the facts however kindly stated. S'ok. Now we know. If saying that all of Love, at one time or another, were involved in drugs is heresy, you need another board that deals in myths and sugarcoated tales of 'reality'. I for one am glad to have the true history of Love, and love Arthur all the more for overcoming his weaknesses (as we all have in us), and sharing his genius, his gift of music and Love. and his compassionate, giving side--a lesson for all.
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| waxburn |
Posted - 19/11/2012 : 03:29:17
quote:
Originally posted by Fred in Bed
I'm gonna speak up for Waxburn here. His opinion is as valid as everyone else's. I don't believe he's been overly negative over time, he's just been swimming against the tide for much of it - especially when it was 'open season' against Arthur in the summer of 2005. Everybody's got a right to their opinion. I'm not trying to reopen old wounds but every should be allowed to speak freely. If it's positive, then that's great. If it's not, well, that's life. I don't see any trolling here - just heartfelt opinions. No need for self-censorship, no need for forum sabbaticals.
Thx, people here have a very very selective memory. back when it was open season on arthur there was NO call for civility or love or any of that. i for one remember it well.
whats so terrible about saying theres not going to be a gethsamne anyways?
whats wrong with the truth? |
| Fred in Bed |
Posted - 19/11/2012 : 00:45:15
I'm gonna speak up for Waxburn here. His opinion is as valid as everyone else's. I don't believe he's been overly negative over time, he's just been swimming against the tide for much of it - especially when it was 'open season' against Arthur in the summer of 2005. Everybody's got a right to their opinion. I'm not trying to reopen old wounds but every should be allowed to speak freely. If it's positive, then that's great. If it's not, well, that's life. I don't see any trolling here - just heartfelt opinions. No need for self-censorship, no need for forum sabbaticals. |
| lemonade kid |
Posted - 18/11/2012 : 00:14:47
Thanks for keepin' it real, rw & j9.
Cheers to all.
________________________________________________
Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find money cannot be eaten.
~ Cree Prophecy |
| waxburn |
Posted - 17/11/2012 : 22:32:36
i didnt hear and speeches on civility when arthur was getting dissed.
i have been biting my tongue long enough. no more.
they day of BS is over.
JE talking about anyones 'drug problmes' is almost surreal. |
| John9 |
Posted - 17/11/2012 : 21:20:08
Very many thanks, Signed RW - I really appreciate your support. |
| SignedRW |
Posted - 17/11/2012 : 20:21:40
Couldn't agree with you more, John. And thank you for articulating that so diplomatically. I'm certain that there are a number of us who tend to contribute to the board far less frequently simply because of how shrilly opinionated and repeated ad nauseum certain points of view have become. Civil discourse is really not that difficult; of course opinions are going to vary on many subjects, but does anyone actually believe that through repeated snide comments, that they'll eventually succeed in bringing others around to their own point of view? Really? |
| waxburn |
Posted - 17/11/2012 : 19:29:32
quote:
Originally posted by John9
I think you'll find that vast majority of people here - certainly those of us who have been around since the board's early days - have always treated each other's views with consideration and respect. In my view that's why this is one of the very best internet forums on popular music. There have been very many more comments that treasure the memory of Arthur Lee than negative ones. I don't agree with everything that other people write...that is in the nature of discourse. But I would never resort to writing one dimensional invective in response to it.
you subtract my posts and the negative post far outweigh the positive ones. besides, ive been insulted and attacked here numerous times for defending arthur and telling it like it is.
lets not rewrite history again.
and, well, yes, dont expect a pat in the back from me. ill say it as it is , i wont wrap it up in cotton candy |
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